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Muslims: 72 Virgins in Paradise?

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
gracie said:
that's a slightly....cliched assumption. one assumes that a woman will want these things. and they are rather shallow things at that. i would hope that the next world would be less glittery and more Godly.
What are you talking about this is what Allah and His Messenger say is waiting for you. Why would Allah and His infinite knowledge of His creation whose desires He created promise us. Anyways some women I am sure will want those things. But you get what you want, but the most blessed thing the believers are given is the opportunity to see Allah. That is the greatest reward for the beleivers is seeing the face of their Creator. So yeah in retrospect all those things can be looked at as shallow and nothing next to the pleasure of seeing Allah.

in heaven, as souls are freed from their bodies, will women be able to worship alongside men?
There is no worship in paradise, you were supposed to do it in this life in order to help gain the Mercy of Allah and go to paradise. It is complete enjoyment.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Godlike said:
Perhaps the humans who do not seek a reward for anything but only do things out of the goodness of their hearts are the ones who will find Heaven or paradise, and the rest will be doomed to a slight return on their meagre faith.
In Islam it only those who do it solely to please Allah or to get His reward, for what is the reason for doing it or doing anything. No one does anything without recieving some reward whether it is thanks or the feeling in you heart when you say Man, I did that solely for the pleasure of MY Creator.

Either way you are getting paid.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
I don't know maybe it's just me. But, if I read some holy words from a prophet and he said on one hand men inherit 72 virgins and then on the other hand says that hell is filled mostly with women, I'm going to think twice about believing this guy. Sounds like women are ok if they are for sexual satisfaction, but not ok otherwise.
But see no one is mentioning that this reward the 72 virgins is only for those who have been given the reward. These are for those who strives and struggled for the sake of Allah and did not compromise their relgion when the greatest tests, physically, and physcologically were put on them.

Not everyone gets this reward.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Mujahid Mohammed said:
But see no one is mentioning that this reward the 72 virgins is only for those who have been given the reward. These are for those who strives and struggled for the sake of Allah and did not compromise their relgion when the greatest tests, physically, and physcologically were put on them.

Not everyone gets this reward.

The irony isn't in who doesn't get the reward. The conflict is supposedly women are so bad that hell is filled with mostly women. Yet, some men get 72 virgins as a reward. So, women are good if it's for sex....but in general they are bad?

Why would hell be filled with mostly women? Do you know the answer to that?
 

fullyveiled muslimah

Evil incarnate!
Buttercup said:
The irony isn't in who doesn't get the reward. The conflict is supposedly women are so bad that hell is filled with mostly women. Yet, some men get 72 virgins as a reward. So, women are good if it's for sex....but in general they are bad?

Why would hell be filled with mostly women? Do you know the answer to that?

Islam does not hold the idea that women are inherently bad in any way whatsoever. Never did it say that all women are in hell fire and all men are in paradise, which is the impression that one can immediately get from this. Only some women who have the characteristics that are mentioned in hadith stand a possibility to taste some punishment for it. Those women who curse their children and who are ungrateful for good treatment they receive are in a precarious situtation. I know you have probably come across some mothers who curse their children over some displeasure they find in them. Like saying to your kid "you'll never amount to anything" or "I wish you were never born" or various ways to constantly tell the kids they're bad. This is the curse of a mother that women should beware of. Also it is a trait of some women to be completely ungrateful for anything good that happens to them. Like if a woman has got a good husband that treats her well, she will not appreciate any good thing he does because she is too concerned pointing out his bad qualities, or how he is deficient in the relationship. I know personally a woman like that. Her husband is a very sensitive and considerate person. Whenever she asks for something he doesn't hesitate to accomodate her if he can. As soon as he says no to some request of hers, she starts talking about him, saying he has never done one good thing for her in the whole marriage, and they've only been married six months. This is the case of the woman who just can't be pleased. When women act ths way it makes the whole house suffer. It makes her husband and children bitter towards her when she's just this sour, pessimistic woman who's never got a good word for anybody. Of course not all women are victims of this, hence not all women will be going to hell for it. The hadith is not talkin about women in general, but specific types of women. So if you don't fit that quality I wouldn't worry about it.

Numerous times in Quran Allah points out that both the women and the men of His servants can expect the same rewards for the same work. If I am doing some good deeds for the sake of Allah, and let's say Mujahid is doing the same deeds for the sake of Allah, he cannot expect that he will be given a reward and I will be given hellfire as a recompense on the basis that I am a woman. Women are not placed into hellfire for being women, they can be placed there if they don't watch out for those two particular character flaws as mentioned in the hadith. If it were absolute certainty that women would enter hellfire no matter what, then there would have been no point ot mention it. It is mentioned so that we can be warned as to what character flaw to watch out for if we should find ourselves falling victim to it. Much the same way as Allah mentions the fault of men in Quran as being hasty, greedy, miserly, and impatient. The whole point of telling us our faults is so that we can guard against it, not feel sorry for ourselves.

We live in a day and age where women are viewed as very innocent people. Seldom is a woman held responsible for her own evil deeds. Case in point the lady who killed all six of her kids (I forget her name). She committed a heinous crime, but because she was a female the excuse was made about post-partem depression. I know that post-partem depression is real but she's just a murderer. Point blank and no excuses. Women are capable of doing evil as well as anybody else. From a religious standpiont, women are just as capable of doing things that are displeasing to Allah as they are of doing the opposite.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
Um, I admittedly haven't read the whole thread...but from what I heard, the number 72 is a special number to mean "infinite" and that the thing about 72 virgins is just to mean that there is an abundance of whatever you want. That it holds as true for women as men. I could well be wrong, it's just what I remember hearing and seeing in some interview of this Muslim preacher/leader by Barbara Walters. I'd have to look it up to find his name, but I'm not sure what to look up really. I only caught a few minutes of it and that just happened to be what I caught.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
jacquie4000 said:
As as been posted in previous statements here, he stated it is not in the Quran that you will have 72 Virgins. He also stated that there is a Hadith that states this but it is not consided to be Authentic in anyway.

He stated it is a belief among Muslim Fanatics and is not the belief among the majorrity of Muslims. (about 72 Virgins)
His friends who were all Muslims tend to agree this is not an authentic hadith, and the statement is not widely believed.
I think Muslims inform other Muslims (as well as non-Muslims), which hadiths are clearly authentic or not. You can't blame non-Muslims and ignorant (fanatical) Muslims if they come across such nonsense about 72 virgins, if they aren't informed on them.
I wish if i can know what your problem is with the number "72", I think that any muslim has no problem with this hadith; if it was true, then it'd be great; if it wasn't, it'd be great too. It's not a crucial issue that will make a difference!
For God's sake, this hadith is not the end of the world!!
Wallahy it doesn't deserve all this discussion!

The irony isn't in who doesn't get the reward. The conflict is supposedly women are so bad that hell is filled with mostly women. Yet, some men get 72 virgins as a reward. So, women are good if it's for sex....but in general they are bad?
Who said that in general women are bad!!! I think Fullyveiled Muslimah's post is good.
 

jacquie4000

Well-Known Member
I wish if i can know what your problem is with the number "72", I think that any muslim has no problem with this hadith; if it was true, then it'd be great; if it wasn't, it'd be great too. It's not a crucial issue that will make a difference!
For God's sake, this hadith is not the end of the world!!
Wallahy it doesn't deserve all this discussion!
To Not4me...Could it be that this whole thread was meant for that question. Look at the original thread that is the question about 72 virgins ....

Not anything else.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
To Not4me...Could it be that this whole thread was meant for that question. Look at the original thread that is the question about 72 virgins ....

Not anything else
Lol, i know..... i think the author posed this Q because it was controversial in the first place.....i just thought it did not desreve to be....
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
fullyveiled muslimah said:
Islam does not hold the idea that women are inherently bad in any way whatsoever. Never did it say that all women are in hell fire and all men are in paradise, which is the impression that one can immediately get from this.
Are these lines from the hadith?


the Prophet (saw) said, "I saw Hell and I saw that most of its
inhabitants were women".


al-Bukhaari and Muslim report from Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri that the Prophet
(saw) said, "O women give in charity, for I have seen that you form the
majority of the people of Hell."
They asked, "Why is that so, O Messenger of
Allaah (saw)?" He said, "Because you curse too much and are ungrateful for
good treatment".

al-Bukhaari and Muslim report from Usaamah ibn Zayd that the Prophet (saw)
said "I stood at the gate of Hell, and saw that most of those who entered
were women".


Muslim reports from 'Imraan ibn Husayn (ra) that the Prophet (saw) said, "Few
of the inhabitants of paradise are women".

It is a known fact that men commit more crimes on planet earth than women by far. Men (Muslim men too) commit more murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, domestic abuse, etc than women EVER will yet, because women curse and are ungrateful at times we are to believe that hell has far more women present than men?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I'm still not convinced it would be easy to love those "perfect" virgins, and without love, why would you want to spend eternity with them?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
The actual number of virgins (72) is based on a Hadith in a Sunnah of Muhammad, apparently:
"The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]."

I went to search for this hadith and finally i found it. It's not an authentic hadith (not sahih), it's weak.

Believe it or not, i never heard of such thing as 72 virgins all my life till i came to RF. I know that there is wives in heaven. I read so many hadiths about one houri or two but 72? Nahhh never heard of such hadith as i mentioned before, that hadith wasn't an authentic "sahih" one.

Also, i saw so many hadiths while i was searching for weak hadiths which talks alot about those houris. Only few of it are "sahih" and most of it are not.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
The Truth said:
I went to search for this hadith and finally i found it. It's not an authentic hadith (not sahih), it's weak.
Is what I quoted above about women and hell a hadith from Mohammed?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Buttercup said:
Is what I quoted above about women and hell a hadith from Mohammed?

I'll search for it and come back as soon as possible with the answer "God willing". :)
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Buttercup said:
The irony isn't in who doesn't get the reward. The conflict is supposedly women are so bad that hell is filled with mostly women. Yet, some men get 72 virgins as a reward. So, women are good if it's for sex....but in general they are bad?
What do you mean good if it's for sex. The problem with the west is they think that marriage is always about sex.

Why would hell be filled with mostly women? Do you know the answer to that?
There are more women then men.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Mujahid Mohammed said:
What do you mean good if it's for sex. The problem with the west is they think that marriage is always about sex.
Why would faithful men be given 72 virgins? To clip their toe nails? :) From what I've heard in the Islamic view of heaven people will still have sex, is that not true?

There are more women then men.
What about the line: Few of the inhabitants of paradise are women?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Buttercup said:
Is what I quoted above about women and hell a hadith from Mohammed?

Well, if heaven was under the feet of mothers "as prophet Mohammed described it" so why one would think that a man is anyway better than a woman?

That's why one of the most important things are pleasing the mother even much more than the father.

There is things in hadith which so many people ignore or are unaware of it when dealing with the hadiths. Usually the hadith begin with a question from the companions of prophet Mohammed whether they were men or women, then he was answering them. When prophet Mohammed mention somthing so it's because of specific things he saw in women in general, so in order to warn them about it "because it will drive them to hell", he told them that most women in hell are women for certain reasons and the scholars said, as most of hell are women, so also most of people in heaven are women as well because they are more than men on earth "or they will be if they are not" as prophet Mohammed told about what will happen near the end of this earthly life.

For example, there is a hadith for prophet Mohammed describe how easy it's to get to heaven for women much more than men.

He said "in the meaning of the hadith": If a woman prayed her 5 times a day "the usual praying for muslims", fast her month "Ramadan", kept her chastity and obeyed her husband, they will be said to her, enter to heaven from any door you desire.

There is no mentioning in the hadith here for maintaining the family, or any other obligations which only men have to do it and which God will ask him about it in the day of judgment, which means that it's much easier for women to get to heaven than men, but they will remain, most of hell are women and most of heaven are women as well, and if prophet Mohammed meant that most of women will go to hell, so he could simply say "most of women are in hell" but he didn't. I think it's clear right now. :)

He just wanted to warn them in a smart way as he did with an old woman one time. It is reported that one day an old woman came to prophet Mohammed asking if she will get to heaven, he answered her saying "old people never enter to heaven", now if you took this hadith you will scream saying ohhhh, how cruel? but you have to keep going in order to understand why he said so, the old women cried when prophet Mohammed told her that old people don't enter to heaven then she went, then prophet Mohammed asked his companions to call upon her and when she came he smiled and told her than all of people who will enter to heaven are young and all in the same age. So, there is no old people in heaven and they don't enter it simply because all of them are young whether they died young or old, changing in age is only releated to this life only. Now i guess you got the idea of the hadith and how people ask it and how much accurate we must be when dealing with it, because we all know that arabic is rich language and one might misunderstand it's meanings.

Just observe these verses and you will be able to understand the equality of men and women in front of God.

[124] If any do deeds of righteousness, - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them. (Quran 4:124)

Do you know what is the name of this chapter of the Quran? It's chapter 4 (the Women). Also, there is another chapter called (Mary) which is chapter 19. It's so plain and simple. It's so clear in the very start of us, human beings, the Quran didn't blame it all to Eve. Allah made it clear that both of them were mistaken, both of them sinned, then both of them repented to God, and finally, Allah forgave both of them.

[120] But Satan whispered evil to him: he said, "O Adam! shall I lead thee to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that never decays?"


[121] In the result, they both ate of the tree, and so their nakedness appeared to them: they began to sew together, for their covering, leaves from the Garden; thus did Adam disobey his Lord, and allow himself to be seduced.


[122] But his Lord chose him (for His Grace): He turned to him, and gave him guidance. (Quran 20:120-122)

One more thing, women at the time of prophet Mohammed were curious as well, and as you are asking dear Buttercup, they have been asking prophet Mohammed, why everything seems to be for men?

He answered them reciting a verse from the Quran.

[35] For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward. (Quran 33:35)

Note that, if there was no husband for the woman in this life, so Allah will reward her with the best man ever in heaven because it's part of the pleasure in heaven.

[71] To them will be passed round, dishes and goblets of gold: there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that the eyes could delight in: and ye shall abide therein (for aye). (Quran 43:71)

Also read:

[19] "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."


[20] Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live forever."


[21] And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser. (Quran 7:19-21)


I hope i answered your question.

Peace and blessing,

TT :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
gracie said:
thank you, The Truth. in the Islamic view, will there be such material goods in heaven, though? and why would a person want pleasure or riches if they are so near to God?

Frubals to you. :)

Indeed, there is no other pleasure better than being with God but God will give them that as a more pleasure and enjoyment for them and he will remain add and add to them all what they might not imagine because he love them and when you love, you give. If a human being can give, then how come God almighty don't do so, the most giving, most forgiving, most merciful. :)
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Buttercup said:
Why would faithful men be given 72 virgins? To clip their toe nails?

I know you as a humble and wise person, don't make me think of you as somthing otherwise.

I already gave the answer in post # 96. Havn't you seen it yet?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
gnostic said:
I think Muslims inform other Muslims (as well as non-Muslims), which hadiths are clearly authentic or not. You can't blame non-Muslims and ignorant (fanatical) Muslims if they come across such nonsense about 72 virgins, if they aren't informed on them.

Why all the fuss about this issue? It's somthing in heaven, not here. Plus that i already answered about the 72 virgin issue that, that hadith doesn't exist as authentic one.

I have no respect for Indonesian justice system

That's their problem, not the Muslims' problem around the world.

Muffled said:
I believe that only what is good is available to a person in Paradise.

We believe so, the same thing. :)
 
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