Muslims do not worship the same god as the Christians

[Justin Thyme]

Do you think God is a cloud or a pillar of fire? I don't, God can't manifest Himself fully in this world because that's be like trying to fit something too big in too small a box.

I believe that most Christians believe in the Trinity, that God is one in three persons, that Jesus is fully God and fully Man. If that is the case then God most surely can manifest himself fully in this world. That also means that if Jesus is our intercessor for God then God, Himself, is his own intercessor to Man.

 

[Iti oj]

I don't know how people can't accurately comprehend what a logical inconstancy is? It doesn't matter what your blue or red are they are a different color by definition.

If you say you worship the same God, then why does your God have different characteristics than the other?

I think Spock says it best about Allah....

"What does God need with a starship?"

color comes from light. white light its base color contains all the primary colors. a brick is red or blue because it absorbs all the other colors excepts red or blue which it reflects. Now we are not talking about what humans perceive and understand, but about the pure source...God.....the religions would be the colors.

 

[elmarna]

The "God" worshiped by jews , muslims, and christ are THE SAME GOD.
The way we approach him may differ but the ways of GOD are the same.
Christians worship Jesus. That does not mean that the ways of GOD that comes to mind when his name is mentioned is not the same as those mentioned in the first sentence!
While the ways to find a relationship with GOD differ - the GOD refered to is the 1 and the same.

 

[fallingblood]

God never presents Himself in person to Abraham...where do you get that idea from?

From the Bible.

 

[beenie]

Could you explain that further, please? If Islam was not founded until several hundred years after Jesus' death, how could He have been a Muslim?

The true definition of "Muslim" is "one who submits". Therefore, Islamic teaching claim that all prophets are indeed submitters...synonymous with being Muslim.

In other words, in Islam, the message was always the same, to worship only one God. People strayed from that command, so God sent subsequent messengers to respread the word.

I too believe we are all worshipping the same God.

 

[Shermana]

Now what do you suppose it means when it says that the LORD spoke to Moses "face to face" in Exodus 33:11.

The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

 

[kai]

The same god eh?

If a christian beleives that he is undermining his whole belief system.

In islam;

jesus was a prophet and wasn't crucified therefore no resurrection, no redemption through Christ.

some people paper over chasms for the sake of an agenda.

 

[Shermana]

The same god eh?

If a christian beleives that he is undermining his whole belief system.

In islam;

jesus was a prophet and wasn't crucified therefore no resurrection, no redemption through Christ.

some people paper over chasms for the sake of an agenda.

Then you should say "Trinitarian Christian", there are many self-proclaimed "Christians" who don't believe Jesus was G-d incarnate. Also, it doesn't necessarily say that he wasn't Crucified, the meaning of that Sura is a bit unclear. It might be saying that it "only appeared he died".

 

[kai]

Then you should say "Trinitarian Christian", there are many self-proclaimed "Christians" who don't believe Jesus was G-d incarnate. Also, it doesn't necessarily say that he wasn't Crucified, the meaning of that Sura is a bit unclear. It might be saying that it "only appeared he died".

well its all a matter of faith, show me where its unclear. are their Christians that dont need Christ for redemption?

Islam rejects the Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Qur'an says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[6] The Qur'an emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (tawhīd).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

 

[Shermana]

well its all a matter of faith, show me where its unclear. are their Christians that dont need Christ for redemption?

That has nothing to do with who and what their idea of "God" is, that has to do with the details of his Will. You could somehow say that Muslims are SUPPOSED to adhere to Jesus' teachings as a valued prophet to be redeemed. Otherwise, you're stuck in the position where you must say Jews and Christians don't follow the same god. They are correct in saying that Jesus never claimed Divinity. And they are also correct in proclaiming the Trinity as what they call "Shirk".

 

[kai]

That has nothing to do with who and what their idea of "God" is, that has to do with the details of his Will. You could somehow say that Muslims are SUPPOSED to adhere to Jesus' teachings as a valued prophet to be redeemed. Otherwise, you're stuck in the position where you must say Jews and Christians don't follow the same god.

They are correct in saying that Jesus never claimed Divinity. And they are also correct in proclaiming the Trinity as what they call "Shirk"

.

no trinity, no original sin, no divinity, no crucifiction, no resurrection, no redemption through Jesus Christ. All that equals no Christianity.

Unless revelation is irrelevant? and its all the same god anyway.

 

[Shermana]

no trinity, no original sin, no divinity, no crucifiction, no resurrection, no redemption through Jesus Christ. All that equals no Christianity.

Unless revelation is irrelevant? and its all the same god anyway.

Again, that's not an indication of different gods but different doctrines and belief about the will of said god.

 

[kai]

Again, that's not an indication of different gods but different doctrines and belief about the will of said god.

its a indication of the very nature of said god, of his actions and revelations. it forms the very perception of god to an individual in his minds eye.

of course you could say it doesnt matter, and that would be great if everyone threw their scripture out the window and said its all one god.

But Muslims and Christians perceive their god through revelation. those revelations are incompatible.

 

[Shermana]

its a indication of the very nature of said god, of his actions and revelations. it forms the very perception of god to an individual in his minds eye.

of course you could say it doesnt matter, and that would be great if everyone threw their scripture out the window and said its all one god.

But Muslims and Christians perceive their god through revelation. those revelations are incompatible.

Define the word 'nature" as you are using it.

 

[kai]

Define the word 'nature" as you are using it.

i mean how in an individuals mind, he perceives his god.

How different can that god be in the mind of a Christian and the mind of a Muslim before that perception has gone too far and it becomes a false god to the other.

The idea of Jesus dying on the cross is central to the Christian belief. It represents the conviction that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. The crucifixion of Jesus is a vital doctrine in Christianity; however Muslims reject it completely.

http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=article&id=388

 

[Shermana]

So would you say that Jews and Christians worship a different god by this idea of "different natures"?

Obviously a "Vital doctrine" is not the same thing as a "belief in another god", so would you also say that thus JW's and Mormons are not worshiping the same god as mainline "Christians"?

You could also say that the Eucharist is a vital doctrine for Catholics, as is that of Purgatory and others, so thus do Catholics worship a different god than Christians? At what point do "Vital doctrines" become so vital that it means another god?

 

[Averroes]

It's the same God

 

[kai]

So would you say that Jews and Christians worship a different god by this idea of "different natures"?

maybe!!, I think Jesus is totally irrelevant to Jews.

Obviously a "Vital doctrine" is not the same thing as a "belief in another god", so would you also say that thus JW's and Mormons are not worshiping the same god as mainline "Christians" do these Christian sects believe in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus?

You could also say that the Eucharist is a vital doctrine for Catholics, as is that of Purgatory and others, so thus do Catholics worship a different god than Christians?

At what point do "Vital doctrines" become so vital that it means another god?

vital doctrine or the foundation of the very faith itself, the crucifixion.

A good question indeed. and one i have asked many times here.

 

[kai]

It's the same God

Yes! if you totally ignore scripture and revelation.

 

[gnosticx]

quite simply i dont know of any christian or muslim thats ever claimed to see a god to draw a fair comparison of what they looked like and then take that a little further i dont believe that any two people think alike so that the image of god they have cant be the same even at that level...and thats basically saying that god's image is created by peoples perception.....hmm...