Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

this question for all the women her
if we suppose that
that you made wrong with him , he caught you talking about dirty speechs (sex stories) with a stranger man .

if we suppose that there is two kind husbands

the first one slap (in moment of angry) his wife for that because he jeulousy .

the second one never mind , and pass it normal , he ask him to be his friend also and maybe invite him to your house .

which one of them you will choose ?

 

[Bismillah]

Where I still have concerns over a woman being subordinate, thank you for pointing me to the earlier point in the thread (apologies for missing but you will agree this has been a busy thread).

No problem

Would it not be easier to change the meaning to separate to avoid confusion like we have had throughout this thread where some think that this means "slap" or "strike" and will in turn perhaps use this "right" on their wife?

Unfortunately there is no consensus of opinion. All one can do is present their side of evidence and hope people see reason to it, however I believe that a very literalistic interpretation of the Qur'an (i.e without looking at the context and methodological use of the word) because of the fact that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is very active in promoting Salafism. Also note the absence of women within the scholarly realm within this day and age and I believe we run into a masculine bias.

I want to point out that many commentators view the beating as symbolic. The use of a toothbrush or a folded handkerchief thrown at a women is hardly the same as a beating which Merriam-Webster defines as

to hit repeatedly so as to inflict pain

As I said in my earlier post this action is one of emotional expression rather than a physical attack " Firstly, it is important to realize that the traditional view of "lightly hitting" a spouse is viewed as a symbolic action. It is not used as something of physical harm but rather of emotional nature. The nature of the action speaks for itself rather than implying that physical abuse is a prerequisite for it to be effective. Secondly, the Qur'an mandates that spouses must first leave each others' bed meaning that such an action is done after reflection over the conflict limiting powerful and fleeting emotions such as anger or haste pushing a husband to physically harm his wife. Thus what we have is a cultural expression of extreme discontent and anger over a particular issue, but not a mandate for domestic abuse."

 

[Godobeyer]

I know westerners think that Muslim women are like submissive little slave just subnitting to a beating but do you realize that most Muslim women are very strong and that they have minds of their own? Most Muslim women I know would never submit to a beating and their families wouldn't let them either. I n fact beat a Muslim woman and you'll have to deal with her family...and that's not a nice thing

yes there is divers in muslim families and regions, even the same family they are different in treating their wives. ...etc
and every woman had his personality , some are accept to be beated , and some others don't accept , and some other beat their husband
subordonite are not mean slave , subordonite some times because she in love with him , or because she had fear and respect him , because he stronger than her .
and muslim girl subordonite because God ask her to don't be insubordonite .

 

[Godobeyer]

You asked me? I must have missed this.

No, my husband has never slapped/beaten/pushed me, he's a true man.

I have never slapped/beaten/pushed him, I'm a real woman.

good exemple for muslim family

I am sure you are not insubordonite woman ,because of that he never slap you .

 

[beenie]

I know westerners think that Muslim women are like submissive little slave just subnitting to a beating but do you realize that most Muslim women are very strong and that they have minds of their own? Most Muslim women I know would never submit to a beating and their families wouldn't let them either. I n fact beat a Muslim woman and you'll have to deal with her family...and that's not a nice thing

So very true. Nothing like a father finding out his daughter got "slapped" by her husband. He better :run:

this question for all the women her
if we suppose that
that you made wrong with him , he caught you talking about dirty speechs (sex stories) with a stranger man .

if we suppose that there is two kind husbands

the first one slap (in moment of angry) his wife for that because he jeulousy .

the second one never mind , and pass it normal , he ask him to be his friend also and maybe invite him to your house .

which one of them you will choose ?

Neither. Why not have a chat with her instead?

good exemple for muslim family

I am sure you are not insubordonite woman ,because of that he never slap you .

I'm not a dog, Godobeyer. My husband and I have disagreed on MANY things; we just know how to talk it out instead of hitting each other.

 

[Godobeyer]

This seems not to be the case where Godobeyer is concerned, I may be wrong and I'm sure he will tell me

I am against any abuse against any one , the relation between the wife and husband should built with respect each other , and know their duty and their rights .

the beat is an option with only insubordonite woman , and it's the 3 step of this problem
in Islam the beat of the husband to his wife , should be not harmful or make marks in the her body .it's just like warning .


see how some muslim woman beat her husband , very funny clip .:run:

???? ???? ????? The wife hit her husband

 

[Me Myself]

this question for all the women her
if we suppose that
that you made wrong with him , he caught you talking about dirty speechs (sex stories) with a stranger man .

if we suppose that there is two kind husbands

the first one slap (in moment of angry) his wife for that because he jeulousy .

the second one never mind , and pass it normal , he ask him to be his friend also and maybe invite him to your house .

which one of them you will choose ?

Why should we suppose there atre two kind of husbands? there are plenty more.

If your wife is "insubordinated" in ways you cannot accept and she doesn´t care about your feelings/needs enough to talk it out and reach to a conclusion, you may divorce her.

 

[Godobeyer]

Why should we suppose there atre two kind of husbands? there are plenty more.

it's my suppose .
if you have other suppose let us know .

If your wife is "insubordinated" in ways you cannot accept and she doesn´t care about your feelings/needs enough to talk it out and reach to a conclusion, you may divorce her.

now you are understand it
yeah , if you back to my early relpy you will find the steps , if there is no hope the divorce of course is the best/last solution .

 

[Godobeyer]

Neither. Why not have a chat with her instead?

I guess you don't undersand my suppose .

I'm not a dog, Godobeyer. My husband and I have disagreed on MANY things; we just know how to talk it out instead of hitting each other.

ah ? you dog ? sorry I never mean that
yeah you disgreed but you don't insubordonate him , if he ask you to make for him a cup of tea (for exemple ) ?

 

[Me Myself]

now you are understand it
yeah , if you back to my early relpy you will find the steps , if there is no hope the divorce of course is the best/last solution .

Well, I am never against divorce when relationship doesn´t work out. What I am agains is hitting a woman as punishment. That I "understand" as wrong.

I am also very against any statement that says I need to hit insubordinate women so to be a man. That is something I am emphatically against.

 

[Me Myself]

I guess you don't undersand my suppose .



ah ? you dog ? sorry I never mean that
yeah you disgreed but you don't insubordonate him , if he ask you to make for him a cup of tea (for exemple ) ?

Western wives have the freedom to "be too tired to make cup of tea" . Specially if they work too.

If they don´t I say they should make it . That doesn´t mean it is okay to hit them if they won´t.

They are also under natural liberty to ask husband for cup of tea and many husbands gladly comply.

 

[beenie]

I guess you don't undersand my suppose .

I understood you perfectly. I'd rather be alone that choose between a man who would slap me for talking to another man (sexily, as you suggested) or the idiot who'd invite him into our lives.

I thought there were plenty of men who'd fall somewhere in the middle, like MINE, who would talk to me instead. Sure, he may be angry about it, but slapping me? Nope.

ah ? you dog ? sorry I never mean that
yeah you disgreed but you don't insubordonate him , if he ask you to make for him a cup of tea (for exemple ) ?

If my husband slapped me because I didn't make him tea I'd throw the mug at him. Seriously, WHAT?

I'll gladly get my husband some tea, but the road goes two ways. If I'm being treated well, then I won't have a reason to not do him the FAVOR of getting him some tea. My husband recognizes that WE have six young children to care for; most of the daily caring falls on me (MY CHOICE), so instead of insisting on anything, he asks. He's patient too; he knows I can't and won't jump up as soon as he asks, if I have little ones to care for first. He also recognizes that those six lovely offsprings were not purchased at a store by me, and that he had a hand in bringing them into our lives...therefore, he knows I have to tend to them first. They NEED something, he merely WANTS it.

Teamwork: It's a Beautiful Thing

 

[Godobeyer]

Well, I am never against divorce when relationship doesn´t work out. What I am agains is hitting a woman as punishment. That I "understand" as wrong.

I am also very against any statement that says I need to hit insubordinate women so to be a man. That is something I am emphatically against.

every one had his solution and his way to treat his life .
I am against also to insuborinate women .

the culture and religion are very different , for exemple
we the Muslim men here should work for gain many for buy house and for credit to mariage wedding which very expensive and give dowry , and we the only responsible to go out to work , it's realy hard to waste your fortune (5 to 10 years of work ) to one mariage, then it's fail , because insubordonite woman "Woman Companion" , which not consider all what her husband did for her happy ,and for get mariage .

 

[Godobeyer]

accualty for some poor men , the mariage is very diffuclt , and the remariage is impossible especially if he had kids (in case of divorce )

 

[Godobeyer]

I understood you perfectly. I'd rather be alone that choose between a man who would slap me for talking to another man (sexily, as you suggested) or the idiot who'd invite him into our lives.

I thought there were plenty of men who'd fall somewhere in the middle, like MINE, who would talk to me instead. Sure, he may be angry about it, but slapping me? Nope.

yes that was my point

accuatly you missed my suppose
accuatly in this case most of men over reaction in this situation (because he heard by his ears that you talking dirty ) , for me in this situation the slap is just introduction of goodbye forever . "divorce" . if she did not admit the awful error that she did .

If my husband slapped me because I didn't make him tea I'd throw the mug at him. Seriously, WHAT?

for me i would never slap my wife because she disorder me sometimes , but if she insiste to be insubordonite i will use my options

I'll gladly get my husband some tea, but the road goes two ways. If I'm being treated well, then I won't have a reason to not do him the FAVOR of getting him some tea. My husband recognizes that WE have six young children to care for; most of the daily caring falls on me (MY CHOICE), so instead of insisting on anything, he asks. He's patient too; he knows I can't and won't jump up as soon as he asks, if I have little ones to care for first. He also recognizes that those six lovely offsprings were not purchased at a store by me, and that he had a hand in bringing them into our lives...therefore, he knows I have to tend to them first. They NEED something, he merely WANTS it.

Teamwork: It's a Beautiful Thing

this realy beautiful exemple of family , God save you and save your family
and bless you all .

I have a curios question ,if it's not make a problem here , are you family muslim origine from midle east ? or origine american ...etc ?

 

[Enlighten]

I know westerners think that Muslim women are like submissive little slave just subnitting to a beating but do you realize that most Muslim women are very strong and that they have minds of their own? Most Muslim women I know would never submit to a beating and their families wouldn't let them either. I n fact beat a Muslim woman and you'll have to deal with her family...and that's not a nice thing

Great point to make and very fitting for this thread.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

So very true. Nothing like a father finding out his daughter got "slapped" by her husband. He better :run:

It's weird. Most people criticizing Muslims are not taking the woman or her family into consideration. I know Muslims, if a brother or father finds out his sister or daughter is getting slapped around it creates problem...big problems. I have witnessed it. Spousal abuse can have some very serious consequences in Muslim families and it's not the norm

 

[Enlighten]

God creat Adam and then creat from him Eve , because he feel lonely .
God creat female and male in everything to let our gendre continous .
all are human 100% for him , there is not different . except in the role in this life . we don't have the same role .
the different i said before ,are not minimize the value of the woman for the men or for God .

it's your turn to respond to my all points .

The reason I asked the question above is ... by what you say above, sounds like you feel that all humans (men and woman) are 100% in Gods eyes?

yes the female and male are not equation in many thing .
what is the differenet between the female body and male body physical body
why man always stronger (in miscules )than woman ? Not always, check out some female wrestlers, body builders, athletes.
what is the different between female brain and male brain Many things
what is the different between female psycho and male psycho .Many things
they are the same ? no of course The above is really applicable when it comes to talking about equality in relationships in my eyes. As you will have seen through this thread from myself and others there are other aspects to a relationship to take into consideration.

is 1+ = 1- ?

the woman is full human for God and for us of course but it's not equal for man
, but for him we are all equal in sin deed and good deed

and in my life experience i saw many women better then many men , sometimes i put trust in woman better than man .

If male is 1 then + 0 = 1 so does that make the woman 0? If that is not what you are implying, please accept my apologies. I have answered the rest in blue.

 

[Godobeyer]

The reason I asked the question above is ... by what you say above, sounds like you feel that all humans (men and woman) are 100% in Gods eyes?

of course for God we are all human 100 % but in different shape and duty and rights ....etc
exaclty as the cow and ox , they are animals but they are different .

If male is 1 then + 0 = 1 so does that make the woman 0? If that is not what you are implying, please accept my apologies. I have answered the rest in blue.

your bleu is right . what i mean by the question "is +1=-1 ?" to tell you we are like the positive and passive . they are not the same but they used in the math .

 

[Godobeyer]

It's weird. Most people criticizing Muslims are not taking the woman or her family into consideration. I know Muslims, if a brother or father finds out his sister or daughter is getting slapped around it creates problem...big problems. I have witnessed it. Spousal abuse can have some very serious consequences in Muslim families and it's not the norm

yeah you right , each family had his way to resolove problems ,
some are don't accept their daughter to be beated even she was wrong , and some others beated her again , her husband beat her , then if she goes to her family to reclame she will beated if they found her she is the troublemake.