Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Trey of Diamonds]

as a parent, i refuse to resort to violence when teaching my son a lesson.
if if hit him, or spank him as it were, it saying it's ok to hit (hitting is a form of violence) as a last resort. it is never ok to hit... it perpetuates this notion that it's ok to hit as a last resort...the cycle has to end, imo.

And what about other people? Do you think they still have a choice whether to physically disipline their children or should your view of the subject be universal?

 

[Bismillah]

this is all nice and well, but... what's the recourse for a women who has a lewd or cheating husband? why is him doing wrong and needing correction not even a possibility?

The Qur'an says that

IIf a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

Thus the wife is allowed to divorce her husband, as is her right throughout the marriage.

Furthermore, if one goes by the third view I posted earlier then

This has been thought to reference to sexually lewd behavior that was witnessed however with the absence of the stringent requirements for zina (four honorable witnesses seeing the penetration of the vagina) called fahisha mubina. Thus there is a crime enforced by a beating (again following the two roles posted in the very beginning regarding he face and physical marks) as judged and carried out by a competent Shari'ah qadi or judge. Thus the beating is not the sole mandate of the man to decide, judge, and execute as man is often fallible and jealous. But rather one that can be applied equally to both man and women by an objective third party. This is the view expressed by the prominent classical scholar Ibn Rushd, 20th century scholar Muhammad Asad, and contemporary scholar Khaled Abou Fadl though the latter views that the arcane legal practice has since ended since the 10th century and can be found here)

applies to both sexes equally.

 

[not nom]

Thus the wife is allowed to divorce her husband,

no, she's allowed "to reach an amicable agreement".

what if the husband doesn't want a divorce?

 

[blackout]

if you read the this thread, you will now why i choose just 2 options .
anyway every one had his opinion .

no it's not outdated and unimaginative , it's god order to Muslim woman .
and i live it .and most of the women that i knew they subordonate their husbands
how ? and my mother one of them .
they cook for him and her kids and clean his clothes and house ...etc
and never go out from the house without his promession ...etc .


most of the muslims women subirdonate to their husband , if you are in region or countries , which happened the inverse , that other story .

I find that post incredibly depressing.

Best for a woman never to marry or have children
in such a situation.

I would sooner die than have to ask permission to leave the house.
(or permission to do anything at all, for that matter)

And I would never want to bring any children into such a life.
Especially any little girls.

 

[Bismillah]

no, she's allowed "to reach an amicable agreement".

An amicable agreement, which includes divorce.

what if the husband doesn't want a divorce?

So, a women's right to divorce her husband is not dependent on her husband.

You also failed to acknowledge that if we try sexual lewdness as fahisha mubina then the husband would also be liable to punishment given conviction by an establish court of Shari'ah as was practiced.

Finally it's interesting to note that the context of this verse comes from when some of the women of the Ansar, or people of Medina, physically abused their husband.

 

[not nom]

An amicable agreement, which includes divorce.So, a women's right to divorce her husband is not dependent on her husband.

why can a husband hit her? why can't he simply divorce her if he has a problem with her, hmm?

nothing you brought up changes that basic disparity.

 

[waitasec]

And what about other people? Do you think they still have a choice whether to physically disipline their children or should your view of the subject be universal?

what about them? for myself i will follow my integrity on the matter, and if it so happens to come up in a conversation i will voice my opinion.
however, most of the parents i am in contact with, share my view

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

what about them? for myself i will follow my integrity on the matter, and if it so happens to come up in a conversation i will voice my opinion.
however, most of the parents i am in contact with, share my view

I'm asking if you think your view should be forced on others or should they be allowed to discipline their child in their own way? How do you feel about parents who use physical discipline on their children and how should they be treated by society?

 

[Godobeyer]

Which movie you saw that said it was against the law for woman to not work?

your reply Mr Me Myself remember me to joke i heard , it's about a studant prepar for an exam, and the exam was about two animals , "eliphent and ant " ....he said/thought that surely the exam will be about the eliphant, because the eliphant is bigger than ant , he study and revise only the lesson of the eliphant .

in the day of exam he discover that the exam is about , he discover that the lesson ( not as he expect before )
in the papper of exam he answer like this :
the ant is small animal , it's very smaller than the eliphant , and the eliphant is .............................................................................................
...........................................................................................
..(etc ....all about the eliphant lesson that he revise before )

If you wanna eat and you don't have money, you work. Is as simple as that.

great advise , only eat ,i should i drink (water ) ? or the money is only for eat ?

I don't see how this has anything to do with disrespecting women via slap though (given that you say you would feel disrrespected if slapped by a woman)

if you are live here, maybe you will change your mind .

 

[Godobeyer]

What I have found interesting here are the numerous claims by godobeyer that he is against abuse of women, yet for physical "discipline" in the forms of slapping. FYI, slapping a person IS abusive. It's abusive to slap your children, it's abusive to slap your spouse.

the man who dare to abuse a woman without reason , is not man , he is evil for me .
the true man should respect his wife , care about her , and try to do everything she want (by his limite ) , and try to resolove the problems softly , and with discussion and respect . if she still insist to insubordinate him in that time he should use his punishment 1-talk with her seriesly , 2-don't sleep with her in the bad 3- beat her 4-arbitors, one from his family and one from her family 5- and last one is divorce

this is an exemple of evil man that I told you before
[youtube]TOz0aJcRw5Q[/youtube]
Kurt Angle VS Maria (John cena saves Maria.) - YouTube

 

[Godobeyer]

Western wives have the freedom to "be too tired to make cup of tea" . Specially if they work too.

what is the freedom about western wives ??

If they don´t I say they should make it . That doesn´t mean it is okay to hit them if they won´t.

1 beat to make tea !! 3,5 beats for don't make lunch !! 5 beats because she did not clean the house and clothes !!! this is how you thinking ? is this considerate a mariage or WWE ?

this is very funny man .I guess you don't know/get the point that what we talking .

 

[Me Myself]

what is the freedom about western wives ??

The same as the freedom of western husbands.

They are free to have a job if they want to. They are free to not bring a cup of tea if they don´t want no matter how much the husband thinks he diserves it. TYhey are free to ask their husbands cups of tea (though the husband is free to say no exactly as they are free to do so).

It is not about OBLIGATION or DUTY to bring cup of tea. Is wheter or not they want to do the FAVOR of doing such. this is for both husband and wife.

1 beat to make tea !! 3,5 beats for don't make lunch !! 5 beats because she did not clean the house and clothes !!! this is how you thinking ? is this considerate a mariage or WWE ?

this is very funny man .I guess you don't know/get the point that what we talking .

I am sure I do. I don´t think you would slap them at the first time they didn´t give you tea, for what I read it would be the 10th time maybe?

I still mantain that it is not cool to slap wife for cup of tea even if 100th that she didn´t wring to you.

 

[Draka]

the man who dare to abuse a woman without reason , is not man , he is evil for me .
the true man should respect his wife , care about her , and try to do everything she want (by his limite ) , and try to resolove the problems softly , and with discussion and respect . if she still insist to insubordinate him in that time he should use his punishment 1-talk with her seriesly , 2-don't sleep with her in the bad 3- beat her 4-arbitors, one from his family and one from her family 5- and last one is divorce

So which is it? Are you against abuse or for it? All I see is double talk here.

this is an exemple of evil man that I told you before
[youtube]TOz0aJcRw5Q[/youtube]
Kurt Angle VS Maria (John cena saves Maria.) - YouTube

Oh no you didn't. Nope...you did. You just tried to use an example from WWE. First off, this is scripted. Secondly, the women are trained like the men to take bumps and falls and smacks and such in the line of their job. The women can really give as good as they get. It's entertainment and...it's planned. Thirdly, Kurt Angle is a dedicated former Olympic gold medalist, and a good guy. In fact, even though him and his ex-wife divorced, he's actually not only still friends with her, but even good friends with her new husband. So using a video clip of a WWE match trying to say he is an evil man is simply ludicrous. :areyoucra

 

[not nom]

WWE? heh. here's some real ****.

carry on

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh, I get it! It's not okay to abuse your wife, but it's okay to beat her if she doesn't listen to you. I totally get it now!

 

[Draka]

Oh, I get it! It's not okay to abuse your wife, but it's okay to beat her if she doesn't listen to you. I totally get it now!

That's kind of what I'm getting. If you look, godobeyer has said that it's not okay to abuse your wife "without reason". In other words, if you feel you have a reason...go ahead and smack her around. Just don't go smacking her around because you're bored, because that's not a real reason.

 

[no-body]

Muslims have caught up to the 1950's at least. There is some progress.

 

[Gharib]

looking at this thread, i see that no one really cares about the real islamic stance on this issue, but rather it's yet another thread of islamophobia, i gave links to what scholars say, brother Bismillah also explained the matter further and yet here i am posting again because of what i see happening.

the Prophet pbuh once said, don't reply to the foolish. i'm out of this thread.

 

[Me Myself]

Actually, I feel less harsh on islam in this particular issue thanks to some contributions I´ve seen.

I see Godobeyers actions and costumes are probably ones coming from ignorance and ill understanding of their religion.

Still aware I cannot be 100% sure abot it for the little knowledge I have, but for what I have been given here, I can see Islam´s perspective in a new light.

 

[Draka]

looking at this thread, i see that no one really cares about the real islamic stance on this issue, but rather it's yet another thread of islamophobia, i gave links to what scholars say, brother Bismillah also explained the matter further and yet here i am posting again because of what i see happening.

the Prophet pbuh once said, don't reply to the foolish. i'm out of this thread.

Oh no, don't leave. Yours and Bismillah's input have been appreciated, as well as other Muslims who have stepped forward here to explain actual Islamic teachings and scriptures. This is exactly why I said I had a hard time believing that it was just an Islamic thing. That it is, indeed, an individual thing. It appears, like other religions, you have some people that will interpret their holy books in order to justify themselves and their actions, whether the actual scripture really agrees with them or not.

These people have issues, obviously. For what we have seen here is someone who says abusing a wife is wrong, and in the same breath talks about "slaps of love". You cannot have it both ways. Yet some put up this disconnect between what they say and what they actually think and try to use their religion to justify themselves. This only gives a bad view of the religion to others who may not know otherwise. If Muslims like yourself do not step forward to set the record straight then ignorance and misconceptions will rule out.