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Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

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Breathe

Hostis humani generis
She has the right to refuse and not marry him, or divorce him if he tries to force a second wife into the family.
That's how I've always heard it, as well. Naturally, I agree with your view and see that as the one being most in line with Islamic thought.

I'm curious as to Godobeyer's response, and why he thinks these actions are both permissible, and in accordance with the Islamic POV, when all of my dealings with Islamic scholars have suggested otherwise.

I've seen the same both in the West and in Muslim countries.
I've never had the chances to visit a Muslim country, but I've seen the same in the West from both non-Muslims and Muslims. Some men are pigs. No offence to the pigs.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
After reading so many responses here, I'm very happy certain people would steer clear of my daughter.

She would do much better with someone who will respect her and who wishes to treat her well.
While I'm happy about that as well, I'm sure that those certain people would benefit from the butt-kicking I'm sure your daughter could provide. ;)
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
She has the right to refuse and not marry him, or divorce him if he tries to force a second wife into the family.
of course , it's her choice to accept to live with second wife or to divorce, it's not something obligation thing. there is no obligation in mariage .
all comes by deal and choice .
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
hey independent woman day when ? :p
independent with limited or without ? you mean "full freedom " ?
By independent I mean just that, independent. Doesnt need me. She has opinions of her own, passions of her own, interests of her own, she is not afraid to speak her mind or to follow her own path. She is together with and because she loves me and want to live with me, not because it is her duty.
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
Just because we always want more ,for exemple if you are rich , you would be more richer , it's the same thing and feeling , if you have a wife you would be have two wives or more .

The Qur'an teaches that greed is against Allah in
Sura 64:15-16; that merchants must be honest (Sura17:35). Likewise the Quran forbids usury and blesses charity (Sura 2:276-280).
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
The Qur'an teaches that greed is against Allah in

first of all this is Sura 2:276-280


Allah hath blighted usury and made almsgiving fruitful. Allah loveth not the impious and guilty. (276) Lo! those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor-due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (277) O ye who believe! Observe your duty to Allah, and give up what remaineth (due to you) from usury, if ye are (in truth) believers. (278) And if ye do not, then be warned of war (against you) from Allah and His messenger. And if ye repent, then ye have your principal (without interest). Wrong not, and ye shall not be wronged. (279) And if the debtor is in straitened circumstances, then (let there be) postponement to (the time of) ease; and that ye remit the debt as almsgiving would be better for you if ye did not know. (280)

where i am against GOD ?

again (Sura17:35) this is

Come not near the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better till he come to strength; and keep the covenant. Lo! of the covenant it will be asked. (34) Fill the measure when ye measure, and weigh with a right balance; that is meet, and better in the end. (35) (O man), follow not that whereof thou hast no knowledge. Lo! the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked. (36)
where is iam against GOD ?


again Sura 64:15-16

15) So keep your duty to Allah as best ye can, and listen, and obey, and spend; that is better for your souls. And whoso is saved from his own greed, such are the successful. (16) If ye lend unto Allah a goodly loan, He will double it for you and will forgive you, for Allah is Responsive, Clement, (17) Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, the Mighty, the Wise. (18)
my resource is Quran Explorer

this verse of Quran maybe help

100-1
]In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

By the snorting coursers, (1) Striking sparks of fire (2) And scouring to the raid at dawn, (3)Then, therewith, with their trail of dust, (4) Cleaving, as one, the centre (of the foe), (5) Lo! man is an ingrate unto his Lord (6) And lo! he is a witness unto that; (7) And lo! in the love of wealth he is violent. (8) Knoweth he not that, when the contents of the graves are poured forth (9) And the secrets of the breasts are made known, (10) On that day will their Lord be perfectly informed concerning them. (11) [/size]
 
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Enlighten

Well-Known Member
first of all this is Sura 2:276-280

where i am against GOD ?

Yep I quoted the points to reference in my post above, I know what they say.

By saying this you promote greed which is against God:
Just because we always want more

(7) And lo! in the love of wealth he is violent.

It seems you know that greed is against God but you still promote it with the statement you made above by always wanting more?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Yep I quoted the points to reference in my post above, I know what they say.

By saying this you promote greed which is against God:




It seems you know that greed is against God but you still promote it with the statement you made above by always wanting more?

already God confirm that , how i became against HIM ?!!!!!
the mean of that verse ,(maybe it's not translate well ) ,God confirm that all the human being don't feel enough for anything , money , houses ,cars , .....etc
even God give them , they want more .
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Allah is referring to greed of material things, Godobeyer, not of women. Women aren't "things" to be collected.
 
You're right, Kerr. Domestic violence occur just about everywhere in including in Western societies. I know that it happen in Australia, and it is wrong here. For Godobeyer to point his finger that it happen in the West, doesn't mean what he would do, any more right.

The problem is not just that domestic violence occurred in Muslim homes, but that some men would interpret and blindly follow the strict interpretations of the Qur'an, as if it is "alright" for a man to beat his "rebellious" wife (or wives, since a Muslim man may have more than 1 wife). Muslim men can easily use the Qur'an as excuses to hurt their wives.

The Qur'an mean everything to Muslims, for it is the core of their belief and teaching. But to follow it blindly (strict interpretation), without the proper context and without common sense and without thought to the consequence of such action taken, can wreak destructive and psychological damage to women. And in many part of the Muslim socieities, the girls are married to much older men, so it is quite easy for men to dominate and subjugate girls or young women, thinking this is the "right" way for marriages.

To me it is a load of nonsense that Godobeyer think it is alright to confine his (future) wife in their home, unless she gain his permission to go outdoor, and punish her if she has no permission. He is basically her jailer, her master, her tyrant.

It's all academic anyway. Over half of the population no longer marries and the half which do have a 50% divorce rate. Before too many years gays will be the only ones who get married.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Allah is referring to greed of material things, Godobeyer, not of women. Women aren't "things" to be collected.

3-14
Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring; and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.

زين للناس حب الشهوات من النساء والبنين والقناطير المقنطرة من الذهب والفضة والخيل المسومة والانعام والحرث ذلك متاع الحياة الدنيا والله عنده حسن الماب
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
and also

3-4
وان خفتم الا تقسطوا في اليتامى فانكحوا ما طاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلاث ورباع فان خفتم الا تعدلوا فواحدة او ما ملكت ايمانكم ذلك ادنى الا تعولوا

And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
3-14
Beautified for mankind is love of the joys (that come) from women and offspring; and stored-up heaps of gold and silver, and horses branded (with their mark), and cattle and land. That is comfort of the life of the world. Allah! With Him is a more excellent abode.

زين للناس حب الشهوات من النساء والبنين والقناطير المقنطرة من الذهب والفضة والخيل المسومة والانعام والحرث ذلك متاع الحياة الدنيا والله عنده حسن الماب

Very telling, no distinction between women and livestock.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Just because we always want more ,for exemple if you are rich , you would be more richer , it's the same thing and feeling , if you have a wife you would be have two wives or more .

contentment will be hard to find if someone is always seeking more

Wouldnt you rather contentment?
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sadly, I think he's completely serious about the interpretation he's defending.

He is. :eek:

looncall said:
Very telling, no distinction between women and livestock.

No it's not. "mankind" in Arabic is "nas", which is both men and women. Women are a charm for both men and women, as are gold, silver, and in THOSE DAYS, their possessions, (cattle, land, etc).

One interesting point to think about in this verse is, how can women be alluring for all people? One of the ways in which women are a charm to all mankind is the special beauty Allah has granted them ( See: Women & Beauty - A Secret Revealed in the Qur'an ). This special beauty is in addition to natural human pleasantness common to both men and women. It can be 'appreciated' in a woman by both women and men.

The verse uses "all people / mankind", which is a translation of the word "ناس / nas" used in this verse. Therefore, all the things identified in the verse as being charming are applicable for both men and women. As we have already noted, women's special beauty can be beheld and appreciated by other women too, as is observed in society - not just by the opposite gender. In this way, it makes sense that Allah directs the verse at ناس / all people - at both men and women.

Some translators have wrongly translated "ناس" with the word "men". For example, Yusuf Ali:

"Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things they covet: Women and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and well-tilled land. Such are the possessions of this world's life; but in nearness to Allah is the best of the goals (To return to)."

This is an erroneous translation, since the Arabic word for 'men', 'رجال' (rijaal) is not used in this verse (used elsewhere), instead the word ناس - "people / mankind" is used. ناس is used in the following sura (chapter) for example...

Source

Nowhere are humans, namely women, compared to livestock. You're reading something that's not there. Can't I say the following:

"The following bring me great joy in my life:

My family
My husband
My children
My health
My house
My shiny new car"

How are they all equal?
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
already God confirm that , how i became against HIM ?!!!!!
the mean of that verse ,(maybe it's not translate well ) ,God confirm that all the human being don't feel enough for anything , money , houses ,cars , .....etc
even God give them , they want more .

Ok let me take this back a step. You said that people, when they have riches want more and more? Correct?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
already God confirm that , how i became against HIM ?!!!!!
the mean of that verse ,(maybe it's not translate well ) ,God confirm that all the human being don't feel enough for anything , money , houses ,cars , .....etc
even God give them , they want more .

There are also people who thank God for His grace:

"O ye who believe! eat of the good things that we have provided for you, and be grateful to God, if it is him ye worship." - 2: 172

Solomon thanking Allah:

"Said one who had knowledge of the Book: I will bring it to thee within the twinkling of an eye! Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said: This is by the grace of my Lord! To test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! And if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is ungrateful, truly My Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour!" - 27: 40
 
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