Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

Is it abusive for a girl to help her father do something, even though it's not obligatory and she likes it?

help no , draka said worked with her father from 12 , then she changed (fixed) her claim to "only help "

Also, another simple yes-no question: is it abusive to slap one's wife if she goes out to buy groceries without telling her husband?

yes .
brother , we were discuss this issue privatly ( slap and soft beat ) . why you insist to repeat the question? this case is resolved

i answser your question , let me ask you this question :
when the husband should beat her wife ?

 

[Debater Slayer]

help no , draka said worked with her father from 12 , then she changed (fixed) her claim to "only help "

I assume that to help someone, you must "work" with them. It's just a term for doing something.

yes .
brother , we were discuss this issue privatly ( slap and soft beat ) . why you insist to repeat the question? this case is resolved

I thought you still held the same opinion, judging from your posts in this thread and other ones.

Sorry for repeating my question, then.

i answser your question , let me ask you this question :
when the husband should beat her wife ?

Never, although it'd largely depend on what you mean by "beat". Care to elaborate on that?

 

[Vinayaka]

Godobeyer, you don't understand the meanings of 'work'. One meaning is to 'earn a living', but that isn't the only meaning. There are many other ways to use this word in English.

For example, I can go 'work' in the garden, means I am just planting or watering my back yard garden. It's like 'doing'. Students can work on their studies. We even say, "This is hard work." which can refer to almost anything, like trying to get somebody to understand something. You are limiting the meaning to the one thing only. So the problem here you and others keep encountering has a whole lot to do with language.

 

[Vinayaka]

when the husband should beat her wife ?

Its really really simple. Never. never. Never. Never. Not ever. Under no circumstances whatsoever. There is no time eve that a man should beat his wife. No. No no. Which part of 'never' do you not understand?

 

[Godobeyer]

I assume that to help someone, you must "work" with them. It's just a term for doing something.

if you have a daughter of 12 years old ,you would bring her to garage to work with you ?

I thought you still held the same opinion, judging from your posts in this thread and other ones.

Sorry for repeating my question, then.

there is different between my experience and Islamic law , I was made mistake when i post my experience here .and they use it , against me .

Never, although it'd largely depend on what you mean by "beat". Care to elaborate on that?

of course soft beat ,for your opinion ,when we could use it against our wives ?

 

[Debater Slayer]

if you have a daughter of 12 years old ,you would bring her to garage to work with you ?

If she wanted to, I would. It's not like I'm forcing her or making her work for a living. Just as a hobby.

When I was younger, I'd always ask my father to take me with him to work because I found it interesting. It's very normal.

there is different between my experience and Islamic law , I was made mistake when i post my experience here .and they use it , against me .

Maybe you shouldn't have used the two together, to avoid this confusion. Anyway, moving on to the third point...

of course soft beat ,for your opinion ,when we could use it against our wives ?

I don't know if I can ever beat my wife, and I also think that Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best people will never beat their wives in any way. I guess I'd try to resolve the issue through other ways instead.

 

[Godobeyer]

If she wanted to, I would. It's not like I'm forcing her or making her work for a living. Just as a hobby.

When I was younger, I'd always ask my father to take me with him to work because I found it interesting. It's very normal.

معزة ولو طارت

I don't know if I can ever beat my wife, and I also think that Muhammad (PBUH) said that the best people will never beat their wives in any way. I guess I'd try to resolve the issue through other ways instead.

ah , you now make distinction between God and his Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in this issue ?
1-God required to us " the soft beat " , to resolve the problem of "insubordinate woman
2-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never use "soft beat"

حل هذا المشكل

I guess Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did use the "soft beat" because all of his wives are subordinate , and i guess even they insubordinate him he would not "soft beat" them.

even that he separte them in the bed for month .
هجر الرسول لزوجاتة(صلى الله علية وسل&#1605

from this link :
http://forum.sedty.com/t270667.html

 

[Debater Slayer]

معزة ولو طارت

You seem to be a bit confused about the definition of "work". It doesn't have to be obligatory or done for a monetary return. It could be a hobby, which is why it's not illegal or abusive at all.

ah , you now make distinction between God and his Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in this issue ?
1-God required to us " the soft beat " , to resolve the problem of "insubordinate woman

Is it fardh (obligatory) to do so?

2-Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never use "soft beat"

حل هذا المشكل

If Muhammad (PBUH) never used it, doesn't that imply that the best people won't?

I guess Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did use the "soft beat" because all of his wives are subordinate , and i guess even they insubordinate him he would not "soft beat" them.

even that he separte them in the bed for month .
هجر الرسول لزوجاتة(صلى الله علية وسل&#1605

from this link :
http://forum.sedty.com/t270667.html

Good link.

"إن الإسلام لا يترك للرجل استخدام استرتيجية الهجر كيف يشاء،و و وقت شاء!!! فلا يمكن استخدام هذا الأسلوب مطلقا قبل الوعظ ،فكثيرا لا تكون الزوجة تعلم أنها فعلت ما يغضب زوجها ، و تظن أن هجره له سببه ؛ أنه مرهق ن أو حدثت له مشكلة خارج البيت أغضبته ، و لا يريد أن يتحدث عنها ، أو أن أهله أوقعوا بيهما،أو أن امرأة أخرى غيرها أخذته منها و هو يفعل معها ذلك لأنه لم يعد يحبها أو يريدها بعد ظهور تلك المرأة في حياته ، فيكون نتيجة الهجر أزدياد الفجوة بينهما،و كل منهم غاضب من الآخر ، و يشعر أنه قصر في حقه، فنجد سرير حجرة نوم بعض المسلمين به هبوط حاد من اليمين ، و هبوط حاد من اليسار،و هضبة مرتفعة من المنتصف"

Yeah, I completely agree.

 

[Enlighten]

You seem to be a bit confused about the definition of "work". It doesn't have to be obligatory or done for a monetary return. It could be a hobby, which is why it's not illegal or abusive at all.



Is it fardh (obligatory) to do so?



If Muhammad (PBUH) never used it, doesn't that imply that the best people won't?



Good link.

"إن الإسلام لا يترك للرجل استخدام استرتيجية الهجر كيف يشاء،و و وقت شاء!!! فلا يمكن استخدام هذا الأسلوب مطلقا قبل الوعظ ،فكثيرا لا تكون الزوجة تعلم أنها فعلت ما يغضب زوجها ، و تظن أن هجره له سببه ؛ أنه مرهق ن أو حدثت له مشكلة خارج البيت أغضبته ، و لا يريد أن يتحدث عنها ، أو أن أهله أوقعوا بيهما،أو أن امرأة أخرى غيرها أخذته منها و هو يفعل معها ذلك لأنه لم يعد يحبها أو يريدها بعد ظهور تلك المرأة في حياته ، فيكون نتيجة الهجر أزدياد الفجوة بينهما،و كل منهم غاضب من الآخر ، و يشعر أنه قصر في حقه، فنجد سرير حجرة نوم بعض المسلمين به هبوط حاد من اليمين ، و هبوط حاد من اليسار،و هضبة مرتفعة من المنتصف"

Yeah, I completely agree.

Can you translate please?

Edit: purely out of interest

 

[Debater Slayer]

Can you translate please?

Edit: purely out of interest

GodObeyer linked me to a topic about separating from wives in bed as a punishment for them, but it talked about how this punishment should be used as an absolute last resort for solving a problem, after talking it through and discussing the problem with the wife, and that a husband shouldn't separate from his wife in bed for more than 3 days.

Here is what the text says:

"Islam doesn't allow men to use the separation strategy however they want, or whenever they want, as this strategy can't be used at all before advising the wife, because a lot of the time she doesn't realize that she did something that bothered her husband, and thinks his separation from her is due to a problem that angered him outside the house, and he doesn't want to talk to her, or that his family gossiped to him causing the problem, or that another woman appeared in his life and he does this [separates from his wife in bed] because he no longer loves her or wants her after falling in love with the other woman, which exacerbates the problem and only widens the gap between them."

There. Sorry for using so many commas, but that's the only way I could translate what the text said.

 

[Draka]

GodObeyer linked me to a topic about separating from wives in bed as a punishment for them, but it talked about how this punishment should be used as an absolute last resort for solving a problem, after talking it through and discussing the problem with the wife, and that a husband shouldn't separate from his wife in bed for more than 3 days.

Here is what the text says:

"Islam doesn't allow men to use the separation strategy however they want, or whenever they want, as this strategy can't be used at all before advising the wife, because a lot of the time she doesn't realize that she did something that bothered her husband, and thinks his separation from her is due to a problem that angered him outside the house, and he doesn't want to talk to her, or that his family gossiped to him causing the problem, or that another woman appeared in his life and he does this [separates from his wife in bed] because he no longer loves her or wants her after falling in love with the other woman, which exacerbates the problem and only widens the gap between them."

There. Sorry for using so many commas, but that's the only way I could translate what the text said.

Nicely done. I used Google Translate and I got the basic jist of it, but it's not really a seamless translation that way. Your translation reads so much easier.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Nicely done. I used Google Translate and I got the basic jist of it, but it's not really a seamless translation that way. Your translation reads so much easier.

Thanks. I try to put it into an English cast, that is find the equivalent of idioms and use them so that it reads like how a native speaker would have written it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Is it fardh (obligatory) to do so?

in this ,I don't know , maybe it's oligatory ,maybe not , because it's God required to us to use softly beat .
i resent the question to you , for your opinion ,do you think that it's fardh ?

in this case , we can just pick the things that we like and leave the things that we don't in Quran .

If Muhammad (PBUH) never used it, doesn't that imply that the best people won't?

he is never use it , because his wives did not push him to use it , and because he is the mercyful man in the world .

Good link.

Yeah, I completely agree.

good

 

[Enlighten]

GodObeyer linked me to a topic about separating from wives in bed as a punishment for them, but it talked about how this punishment should be used as an absolute last resort for solving a problem, after talking it through and discussing the problem with the wife, and that a husband shouldn't separate from his wife in bed for more than 3 days.

Here is what the text says:

"Islam doesn't allow men to use the separation strategy however they want, or whenever they want, as this strategy can't be used at all before advising the wife, because a lot of the time she doesn't realize that she did something that bothered her husband, and thinks his separation from her is due to a problem that angered him outside the house, and he doesn't want to talk to her, or that his family gossiped to him causing the problem, or that another woman appeared in his life and he does this [separates from his wife in bed] because he no longer loves her or wants her after falling in love with the other woman, which exacerbates the problem and only widens the gap between them."

There. Sorry for using so many commas, but that's the only way I could translate what the text said.

Thank you I guess I was being lazy by not translating myself mind you

Basically then we still don't need to beat the wife.

Edit: tried to frubal your efforts but wont let me so :clap I need to spread frubals first

 

[Godobeyer]

Thanks. I try to put it into an English cast, that is find the equivalent of idioms and use them so that it reads like how a native speaker would have written it.

they thanks you
your name suppose like this .
Debater Slayer Translator , i am just joking brother ,
i am proud of you , good job , your are better than Google :clap

 

[Debater Slayer]

Thank you I guess I was being lazy by not translating myself mind you

Basically then we still don't need to beat the wife.

Edit: tried to frubal your efforts but wont let me so :clap I need to spread frubals first

Don't worry about it. I doubt there are that many paragraph translators out there anyway, and Google Translate butchers languages. *insert tongue smiley here for image limit*.

Also, thanks for trying to frubal me.

they thanks you
your name suppose like this .
Debater Slayer Translator , i am just joking brother ,
i am proud of you , good job , your are better than Google :clap

Everyone is better than Google in terms of translation. *another tongue smiley here*.

Thank you.

 

[Enlighten]

they thanks you
your name suppose like this .
Debater Slayer Translator , i am just joking brother ,
i am proud of you , good job , your are better than Google :clap

Yes we did, because he actually does not promote abuse of women and is actually providing educational input to us within this post.

So again, why can't your future wife join RF? I'm sure Debater Slayer and many will be quick to tell us if we mis-interpret?

 

[beenie]

Nicely done DS! I too can't frubal you at the moment, but I would if I could.

Godobeyer, are you honestly asking if it's Fardh to "soft beat" your wife?

Fardh??? Wow.

 

[Godobeyer]

Nicely done DS! I too can't frubal you at the moment, but I would if I could.

Godobeyer, are you honestly asking if it's Fardh to "soft beat" your wife?

Fardh??? Wow.

for my opinion , everything in Quran is "Fardh" والله اعلم , as i told Debater S , we can't not chooce what we appropriate and leave what it's not !! in this case we pick what we appropriate and leave what it's not !! NO !!! and never !!!
because almost of the rules of Islam is coming/extrat from Quran .
because if I tell that "no i would never soft beat my insubordinate wife " that mean i am accuse the Quran that contain default , and God suggest/require a something could not be acceptible !!!, this is a solution from God to a problem (insubordinate wife), and we should follow it and make all the step, because some others ignore it and misuse it, jump directly to divorce or jump directly to "soft beat " , God suggest steps we need to respect them .

I guess brother Debater , got my point well , that why he avoid to comment to my yesterday reply . #953

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes we did, because he actually does not promote abuse of women and is actually providing educational input to us within this post.

So again, why can't your future wife join RF? I'm sure Debater Slayer and many will be quick to tell us if we mis-interpret?

I told you she is bad in english and even french .
for you i will tell her the story , and sugget to her , to come her and tell you what she thought ,and i will give her the choice to accept or not .