Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Debater Slayer]

in this ,I don't know , maybe it's oligatory ,maybe not , because it's God required to us to use softly beat .
i resent the question to you , for your opinion ,do you think that it's fardh ?

in this case , we can just pick the things that we like and leave the things that we don't in Quran .

It's not about my opinion; my opinion wouldn't matter here. As you said yourself, we can't just pick the things we like in the Qur'an and leave the things we don't like.

But now that it appears you are not sure if it's fardh or not, why were you arguing for it as if it were? Wouldn't it be better if you made sure first?

By the way, what is your definition of "softly beat"?

Nicely done DS! I too can't frubal you at the moment, but I would if I could.

Thanks.

 

[Godobeyer]

It's not about my opinion; my opinion wouldn't matter here. As you said yourself, we can't just pick the things we like in the Qur'an and leave the things we don't like.

But now that it appears you are not sure if it's fardh or not, why were you arguing for it as if it were? Wouldn't it be better if you made sure first?

By the way, what is your definition of "softly beat"?

because (as you make me understand) you are against that Hadiths and that verse of Quran, those ask the wife to submission to her husband
وهذا حرام
I don't know (i am not very sure )if you admit it or not !!!!for my opinion if any one deny anything in Quran and Suna would be "Kafir , dibeliever "

soft beat =ضربة خفيفة من الوراء

 

[Debater Slayer]

because (as i understand) you are against that Hadiths and that verse of Quran .
وهذا حرام
I don't know if you admit it or not !!!!for my opinion if any one deny anything in Quran and Suna would be "Kafir , dibeliever "

I was just asking you if it's fardh or not. How am I denying anything by doing so?

soft beat =ضربة خفيفة من الوراء

أخي أنصحك بالقراءة عن هذا الموضوع أكثر لأن ما قرأته كان فيه استخدام السواك و الله أعلم

Sorry for asking again, but care to elaborate more on this? I want your full definition in detail.

 

[nameless]

I was just asking you if it's fardh or not. How am I denying anything by doing so?

what it means by 'fardh'?
thanx in advance ...

 

[Debater Slayer]

what it means by 'fardh'?
thanx in advance ...

"Fardh" or "fareeda" is a teaching in Islam that is obligatory (i.e. not optional like fasting an extra day, for example), such as performing the five daily prayers, fasting the month of Ramadan, and doing "Hajj" (pilgrimage to Mecca) if you can.

 

[Godobeyer]

what it means by 'fardh'?
thanx in advance ...

obeligation فرض
it's spell fardh

 

[nameless]

"Fardh" or "fareeda" is a teaching in Islam that is obligatory (i.e. not optional like fasting an extra day, for example), such as performing the five daily prayers, fasting the month of Ramadan, and doing "Hajj" (pilgrimage to Mecca) if you can.

so, does quran permits husbands to their beat and control their wives though it is not obligatory?

 

[Godobeyer]

I was just asking you if it's fardh or not. How am I denying anything by doing so?

not about the fardh or suna or not .
i am talking about the admit of my sources , "Hadith and that verse of Quran )
why no one of you , tell me that he/she is with that Hadith and verse of Quran , and he/she with the submission of wife to her husband?!!!!
and why you always avoid to be clear and you admit that you with or against the that hadiths and verse of Quran ?!!!

أخي أنصحك بالقراءة عن هذا الموضوع أكثر لأن ما قرأته كان فيه استخدام السواك و الله أعلم

Sorry for asking again, but care to elaborate more on this? I want your full definition in detail.

why not i am here to listen and ask .

 

[Godobeyer]

so, does quran permits husband to their beat and control their wives though it is not obligatory?

for the insubordinate wife ,I guess it's obligatory to the third step is , after talking with her and separate her in the bed , then "soft beat her" , it's God suggest , I guess it's obligation to follow it in this mariage problem .

 

[Godobeyer]

from Quran translation :
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

first "admonish them "

second step :banish them to beds apart ,

third step :then scourge them (soft beat them )

 

[Kerr]

for the insubordinate wife ,I guess it's obligatory to the third step is , after talking with her and separate her in the bed , then "soft beat her" , it's God suggest , I guess it's obligation to follow it in this mariage problem .

If God thought it was an obligation wouldnt he just say so? Or is God one of those people who says one thing and mean another?

 

[Kerr]

Men are in charge of women, becauseAllah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).

I fail to see how men excel women :sarcastic.

So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

first "admonish them "

second step :banish them to beds apart ,

third step :then scourge them (soft beat them )

I find this rather disturbing... like she is supposed to be a slave rather then a person.

 

[Godobeyer]

If God thought it was an obligation wouldnt he just say so? Or is God one of those people who says one thing and mean another?

I don't understand you point as well , but as you see the verse of Quran is clear , my brothers and sister muslims, try to avoid it , because they feel shame to admit it
or admit the hadiths that tell the wife to submission to her husband !!!!

how do you explain this ?

 

[Godobeyer]

I fail to see how men excel women :sarcastic.


I find this rather disturbing... like she is supposed to be a slave rather then a person.

edited :
because you understand it like, this is why they don't clearly admit it . they make me the only one here who admit that hadiths and verse of Quran !!! and that mean i am extrem opinion here !!!!
they feel shy , shame , for submision of wife to her husband !!!
but if you try to make you understand it , it's about just about insubordinate wife ,and it's about god law , and they believe as it.

 

[Kerr]

I don't understand you point as well , but as you see the verse of Quran is clear , my brothers and sister muslims, try to avoid it , because they feel shame to admit it
or admit the hadiths that tell the wife to submission to her husband !!!!

You said it was a suggestion from God to slap your wife if she didnt obey. If you then say you are obligated to follow that suggestion, then you are basically saying God says one thing and mean another.

I dont think they feel shame, I think they interpret the verses differently.

how do you explain this ?

I have not read the Quran or the hadiths, so I cannot.

 

[Godobeyer]

You said it was a suggestion from God to slap your wife if she didnt obey. If you then say you are obligated to follow that suggestion, then you are basically saying God says one thing and mean another.

I dont think they feel shame, I think they interpret the verses differently.


I have not read the Quran or the hadiths, so I cannot.

the suggest from God (to the problem of Insubordinate wife ) is obeligation meaning ,because if you deny it's you would be maybe disbeliever (Kafir) .
how i say it's in english ?, obligation said from God ?

how you understand this "then you are basically saying God says one thing and mean another. ?"

no there is no another interpret of the verses (Hadiths and Verse of Quran)
all of them had one meaning : the submission of the wife to her husband .

 

[Godobeyer]

I have not read the Quran or the hadiths, so I cannot.

no not about reading Quran or the Hadiths , it's about admit them or not , you get it now ?
they did not admit the Hadiths and verse of Quran that told the wife to submission to her husband .

 

[Kerr]

edited :
because you understand it like,

My reaction is a result of compassion. If someone where to slap me if I where not obedient... there is something off with that. I dont want to be treated that way. I dont want anyone to be treated that way.

this is why they don't clearly admit it . they make me the only one here who admit that hadiths and verse of Quran !!! and that mean i am extrem opinion here .
they feel shy , shame , for submision of wife to her husband !!!

I havent gotten the impression that they are feeling shame. If they are then I would tell them that I am just a stranger on the Internet and they do not have to feel shame or be shy because I disagree with them.

but if you try to make you understand it , it's about just about insubordinate wife ,and it's about god law , and they believe as it.

I think I understand what you mean. For example I dont think you actually mean that husbands should beat their wives, it is more of a symbolic gesture when they are disobedient and not otherwise. Something like... this similie:
:slap:
Just to tell someone that they are off track and need to think what they are doing. I just dont agree with it.

I could of course be naive. Its in my nature to want to think the best of people, even people I dont agree with.

 

[Kerr]

the suggest from God (to the problem of Insubordinate wife ) is obeligation meaning ,because if you deny it's you would be maybe disbeliever (Kafir) .
how i say it's in english ?, obligation said from God ?

how you understand this "then you are basically saying God says one thing and mean another. ?"

no there is no another interpret of the verses (Hadiths and Verse of Quran)
all of them had one meaning : the submission of the wife to her husband .

Are you sure you mean that it is a suggestion? Suggestions are not obligations. That would contradict the meaning of the word. And yes, I am picky, because of how my brain works. It cannot read "suggestion" and think "obligation", because those things are not the same.

 

[Sakeenah]

As a muslim on RF I don't feel ashamed about any verses or sayings..and I think the other muslims aren't aswell..but in my opinion Godobeyer is giving his own interpretation based on his wishes and not based on ilm or baht (knowledge or research)...and Instead of discussing with him I can do something else with my time.

Good luck to those who want to keep discussing with 'our noble scholar' Godobeyer for another 100 pages