Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[beenie]

Beating your wife is NOT FARDH (I don't even think it's PERMISSABLE), and obedience in this context means to guard what is hers and her husband's (property, dignity, etc.) In other words, remain faithful and support her husband.

 

[beenie]

for ssainhu, Debater Slayer I don't know if they agree with the Hadiths of submission of wife to her husband , but i guess they agree with the "soft beat for insubordinate wife"
I hope they will clear there position about hadiths and verse (submission)

No, I do NOT agree with "soft beat for insubordinate wife" and you know it. I have only said it in EVERY post in your billion "soft beat" threads.

 

[Enlighten]

no ,i am not the only one who with "the soft beat " or submission of the wife

I have only seen you post regarding it being acceptable and a God given right to beat your wife (soft or not, abuse is still abuse). I have seen that some (I think Badran) tell me that it means the man can throw a napkin or toothbrush at his wife, but not beat. I'm sure whoever told me this will correct me if I am wrong. While I still don't agree that I would accept someone throwing something at me as it's a form of humiliation, it is still not beating me. Regarding the wife to sumit to her husband, that is completely different from beating them, I have read this in the Qur'an too but your understanding of it is actually completely different to what I understand.

I guess all are agree with me , but they don't clearly said that .

They have all been pretty clear in disagreeing with you from what I read.

last time, Badran tell me that he is not disgree with any verse of Quran or Hadiths .

Yes and there is no reason for him to disagree with his religion, the difference is understanding the religion so as not to elevate himself above his wife as a control mechanism

for ssainhu, Debater Slayer I don't know if they agree with the Hadiths of submission of wife to her husband , but i guess they agree with the "soft beat for insubordinate wife"
I hope they will clear there position about hadiths and verse (submission )

Again, their understanding of the text is different. But I cannot comment on their behalf.

I repeat about the submission of the wife there is no interpretations .and i am almost sure that they are with submission of the wife .

I repeat, it is the understanding of submission that is key and how it is put into practice from what I gather

for "beat them" there is some interpretations , but i am with the majorty of the islam scolare which them explain it (as soft beat )

At last you recognise that there are other interpretations. Why do you choose to go with the one which advocates abuse?

I am sorry that i talking instead of them ,I will be happy if they clearify their opinions very much and in short answsers and not ambiguous.

No need to be sorry for talking, but I definitely think you should read and take time to contemplate what others are telling you too.

 

[Looncall]

good suggestion ,aslo, i want them to prove to me that the submission of the wife to her husband is not obligation matter in Islam .

Islam aside, do you think it is right for a husband to demand submission from his wife?

 

[Godobeyer]

Islam aside, do you think it is right for a husband to demand submission from his wife?

God order her to submission to her husband , if she respect God , she would be respect her husband .

 

[beenie]

she would be respect her husband .

No argument here. I respect my husband and he respects me. It's a mutual relationship, not one-sided.

 

[Godobeyer]

Let it ALSO be known that I am NOT a scholar, and neither is GODOBEYER.

of course we are not scholar ,
to be short , the arabic is my languge , I am 100% sure that verse of Quran is talking about "soft beating " but the intersting thing is that most of the translations wrote "beat them or strike them or sourge them " , where the translation of Quran that "forsake them, leave them " ?

I still confused about your opinion about submission of the wife to her husband .
are also against or with that wife obey her husband .

 

[Godobeyer]

No argument here. I respect my husband and he respects me. It's a mutual relationship, not one-sided.

the same verse are not argument ?

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

and all these Hadiths are arguments ?

It is obligatory on you O Muslim woman to obey your husband in matters of good. Abu Hurairah reported that Allaah’s Messenger ( sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) said:

“If a woman prays her five (daily) prayers and keeps her private parts chaste and obeys her husband, she will enter Paradise from any of the doors of Paradise she wishes.” [Reported by Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh]


​

From Abu Hurairah ( radiyallaahu anhu), Allaah’s Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

“It is not lawful for a woman to fast while her husband is present unless she has his permission. And she must not allow anyone in his home except with his permission.” [Reported by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim]
​

Also from Abu Hurairah (radiyallaahu ‘anhu), Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:
“When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come to him, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until the morning arrives.” [Reported by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim]


And in the report of Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim, the Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

“By the One in whose Hand my soul is, there is no man that calls his wife to bed and she refuses him, except that the One who is above the heavens is displeased with her until he (the husband) becomes content with her.”


​

From the rights the husband possesses over his wife is that she fulfills the duty of tending to his household and not coming out from it except with his permission. The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

“The woman is the caretaker of her husband’s household and she will be questioned as to her responsibility.” [Reported by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim]

​

Another right he possesses over her is that she fulfills the duties of the household and that she does not make him hire a female servant, which will cause harm and due to which there will be a risk of danger for himself and his children.

Shaikh-ul-Islaam Ibn Taimiyyah (rahimahullaah) said commenting on Allaah’s saying:

“Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband’s absence what Allaah orders them to guard (i.e. their chastity).” [Surah An-Nisaa: 34]:
​

“This mandates the unrestricted obligation of a woman obeying her husband, in all affairs, such as serving him, traveling with him, assisting him and other matters, as is indicated in the Sunnah of Allaah’s Messenger.” [1]

The great scholar, Ibn Al-Qayyim, said: “Those who say that it is obligatory for the woman to serve the husband use (this ayah) as proof in that those who Allaah directed His Speech to (on this occasion) considered this to be from al-ma’roof (good). But as for the woman relaxing and having the husband serve her, sweep, grind the flour, knead the bread, wash the clothes, fix the bed, and serve the household, then that is from al-munkar (evil).

And Allaah says:

‘And they (women) have rights (over their husbands) similar to those (of their husbands) over them.’ [Surah Al-Baqarah: 228]


​

And Allaah says:

‘Men are the protectors and maintainers over women.’ [Surah An-Nisaa: 34]
​

So if a woman doesn’t serve her husband, but instead he acts like a servant to her, then this means that she is the protector and maintainer over him.”

He further said: “For indeed Allaah obligated him to spend on her, to clothe her and to provide her with a place of dwelling in exchange for his enjoying her and her serving him, as well as what the habits of the spouses call for.

Likewise, the binding marriage agreements require that the spouses live in kindness. And kindness means a woman’s serving (her husband) and taking care of the inner affairs of the household.”

And he said: “And there is no difference as to whether the woman is prestigious or lowly, or if she is poor or rich. Just look at this woman who was the most prestigious of women in the world…” [2]

He is referring to Faatimah ( radiyallaahu anhaa) for she would serve her husband and come to the Prophet (sallAllaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) complaining to him, but he would not complain about her.

 

[beenie]

Did you read my post...AT ALL? :face palm:

I get the feeling you are so busy trying to push YOUR OWN interpretation that you are not taking the time to read anyone else's posts.

 

[Draka]

Did you read my post...AT ALL? :face palm:

I get the feeling you are so busy trying to push YOUR OWN interpretation that you are not taking the time to read anyone else's posts.

I don't think he does really bother to read or attempt to understand others. Especially since he keeps bringing up speaking Arabic as if that means that his interpretations mean more than anyone else's. Completely ignoring the fact that at least 2 other Muslims here apparently speak Arabic fluently and disagree with his interpretations.

 

[Godobeyer]

Did you read my post...AT ALL? :face palm:

I get the feeling you are so busy trying to push YOUR OWN interpretation that you are not taking the time to read anyone else's posts.

edited .
OMG , sister what i post it were not interpretations

it's HADITHS and Verse of Quran .

by the way you post interpretations .I post Hadiths and Quran .

انا لم اضع تفاسير هنا .... وضعت احاديث نبوية صحيحة و اية قرأنية

 

[YmirGF]

OMG , sister it's not interpretation it's HADITHS and Verse of Quran .

Which makes it all OK? That's just spiffy. Congratulations on dispelling the myth that Islam is inherently misogynistic.

 

[beenie]

edited .
OMG , sister what i post it were not interpretations

it's HADITHS and Verse of Quran .

by the way you post interpretations .I post Hadiths and Quran .

انا لم اضع تفاسير هنا .... وضعت احاديث نبوية صحيحة

OK, I'm going to say this one last time.

I do not agree with the translation of the Qur'an/Hadith you provided. IMO...Obey doesn't mean what you suggest it means, and I reject the definition of "beat", softly or otherwise, as it goes against the spirit of a mutually respectful marriage/relationship. I FIRMLY believe that there are verses and Hadith that were spoken to a certain group, of a certain culture, at a certain time.

Most importantly, I am free to believe what I want, as are you. God gave me a brain, and I have the right to use it as I please. If God didn't want us to use our brains, we wouldn't have been given them.

Is that clear now?

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't think he does really bother to read or attempt to understand others. Especially since he keeps bringing up speaking Arabic as if that means that his interpretations mean more than anyone else's. Completely ignoring the fact that at least 2 other Muslims here apparently speak Arabic fluently and disagree with his interpretations.

it's not personel issue , Hadiths and Quran not belong to me , I am sure that they are with hadiths of "submission of the wife to her husband" .
and that's why I understand from Ms Badran :
He said clearly that is not against any Hadith or Verse of Quran ,and that mean clearly with submision of the wife to her husband .
for the "soft beat" i am not sure about his opinion .

for MR also Debator i am sure that he not against the Hadiths and that verse of Quran ,
he just was against the "beat" ",slap" in the face , and i am agree with that .because it's not about Islam law , it's was (slap of love ) about my experience

 

[Godobeyer]

OK, I'm going to say this one last time.

I do not agree with the translation of the Qur'an/Hadith you provided. IMO...Obey doesn't mean what you suggest it means, and I reject the definition of "beat", softly or otherwise, as it goes against the spirit of a mutually respectful marriage/relationship. I FIRMLY believe that there are verses and Hadith that were spoken to a certain group, of a certain culture, at a certain time.

Most importantly, I am free to believe what I want, as are you. God gave me a brain, and I have the right to use it as I please. If God didn't want us to use our brains, we wouldn't have been given them.

Is that clear now?

you are wrong , because the translation of the Hadiths are exactly the same meaning in ARABIC . if you don't believe me ask Badran and Debator . deal ?
you want to verify from many sides ok
I am waiting them to retranslate Hadiths.... to have more credibitly ok ?

 

[terryboy]

Jeez, what's wrong with being submissive to the husband? I find the idea of a passive submissive partner... sexy

 

[beenie]

it's not personel issue , Hadiths and Quran not belong to me , I am sure that they are with hadiths of "submission of the wife to her husband" .
and that's why I understand from Ms Badran :
He said clearly that is not against any Hadith or Verse of Quran ,and that mean clearly with submision of the wife to her husband .
for the "soft beat" i am not sure about his opinion .

for MR also Debator i am sure that he not against the Hadiths and that verse of Quran ,
he just was against the "beat" ",slap" in the face , and i am agree with that .because it's not about Islam law , it's was (slap of love ) about my experience

Please let these people speak for themselves. They're fully capable.

you are wrong , because the translation of the Hadiths are exactly the same meaning in ARABIC . if you don't believe me ask Badran and Debator . deal ?
you want to verify from many sides ok
I am waiting them to retranslate Hadiths.... to have more credibitly ok ?

Sure, but just because they say so doesn't mean I HAVE to accept that obey means what you think it does.

 

[beenie]

Jeez, what's wrong with being submissive to the husband? I find the idea of a passive submissive partner... sexy

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, but have you read Godobeyer's opinion of "submission"?

 

[terryboy]

I have read his posts, the idea is almost similar to a D/s relationship and it's erotic to a lot of people including me

 

[Draka]

it's not personel issue , Hadiths and Quran not belong to me , I am sure that they are with hadiths of "submission of the wife to her husband" .
and that's why I understand from Ms Badran :
He said clearly that is not against any Hadith or Verse of Quran ,and that mean clearly with submision of the wife to her husband .
for the "soft beat" i am not sure about his opinion .

for MR also Debator i am sure that he not against the Hadiths and that verse of Quran ,
he just was against the "beat" ",slap" in the face , and i am agree with that .because it's not about Islam law , it's was (slap of love ) about my experience

You don't seem to bother really reading what someone is saying. Instead you brush over it and just assume they are agreeing with you or something. Did you read what Badran said about that at all?

Here is part of what he said, the part that seems most pertinent to your claim about his stance.

Here is basis from Islam regarding the issue at hand. First, regarding hadiths, like i said earlier, there are other hadiths that contradict with the ones you posted. Ones such as the hadith where Muhammad (pnuh) tells us not to beat wives. Are you aware that such hadiths exist? Are you aware of this contradiction or not? I'm lazy and don't want to go collecting the related hadiths, but if you're not aware of them, i'll get them for you.

Due to this contradiction, problems arise of course, and so naturally different opinions follow. As for the hadiths about submission, i honestly don't have the energy to go into detail, but to give you an idea about what i'm basing my position on, one of them contradict the idea that the human answers to god first and the foremost, like the one saying that she should ask him before she fasts. That means the hadith is suggesting her husband is more important than her duty to god. Others are not saying what you're suggesting, like the one saying that women will be questioned as to her responsibility. Sure she will! Thats not saying anything about "submission" to the husband, it said she's the care taker of the household.

Regarding the Quranic verse, there are different interpretations regarding its meaning specifically in certain parts, the first and the last part, and the part about "nushuz".

This again, means that there will be differing opinions on the matter. There are those of the opinion that the husband is or should be an authority figure in the house, but not in the disturbing fashion you're suggesting, neither do they think that the wife has to listen to the husband generally like that. Then there are those who don't agree with such authority in the first place (i belong to that group), and then there is your opinion of course.

I could explain much better than this my position but like i said earlier, i'm not actually into pursuing the matter, i'm simply pointing out that there are different opinions on the subject.

Is the issue clear now?

He asked you if the issue is clear now. Somehow, I still doubt the answer is "yes".