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Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
الله صبحانه وتعالى حذر من تحريف كلامه عن معناه الاصلي و انت للأسف وقعت في هذا المشكل " فالله قال بالحرف الواحد " و إن اطعنكم و انت تقول انا ضد الطاعة

سورة البقرة - سورة 2 - آية
افتطمعون ان يؤمنوا لكم وقد كان فريق منهم يسمعون كلام الله ثم يحرفونه من بعد ما عقلوه وهم يعلمون

(2) سورة النساء - سورة 4 - آية 46
من الذين هادوا يحرفون الكلم عن مواضعه ويقولون سمعنا وعصينا واسمع غير مسمع وراعنا ليا بالسنتهم وطعنا في الدين ولو انهم قالوا سمعنا واطعنا واسمع وانظرنا لكان خيرا لهم واقوم ولكن لعنهم الله بكفرهم فلا يؤمنون الا قليلا

(3) سورة المائدة - سورة 5 - آية 13
فبما نقضهم ميثاقهم لعناهم وجعلنا قلوبهم قاسية يحرفون الكلم عن مواضعه ونسوا حظا مما ذكروا به ولا تزال تطلع على خائنة منهم الا قليلا منهم فاعف عنهم واصفح ان الله يحب المحسنين

) سورة المائدة - سورة 5 - آية 41
يا ايها الرسول لا يحزنك الذين يسارعون في الكفر من الذين قالوا امنا بافواههم ولم تؤمن قلوبهم ومن الذين هادوا سماعون للكذب سماعون لقوم اخرين لم ياتوك يحرفون الكلم من بعد مواضعه يقولون ان اوتيتم هذا فخذوه وان لم تؤتوه فاحذروا ومن يرد الله فتنته فلن تملك له من الله شيئا اولئك الذين لم يرد الله ان يطهر قلوبهم لهم في الدنيا خزي ولهم في الاخرة عذاب عظيم




2-75
Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used to listen to the word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had understood it, knowingly?

4-46
Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: "We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not" and "Listen to us!" distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: "We hear and we obey: hear thou, and look at us" it had been better for them, and more upright. But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.

5-13

And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

5-41
O Messenger! Let not them grieve thee who vie one with another in the race to disbelief, of such as say with their mouths: "We believe," but their hearts believe not, and of the Jews: listeners for the sake of falsehood, listeners on behalf of other folk who come not unto thee, changing words from their context and saying: If this be given unto you, receive it, but if this be not given unto you, then beware! He whom Allah doometh unto sin, thou (by thine efforts) wilt avail him naught against Allah. Those are they for whom the Will of Allah is that He cleanse not their hearts. Theirs in the world will be ignominy, and in the Hereafter an awful doom;

Honesly , i felt shame when I see my Brothers and sisters christains TOTALY with the context (verses of Bible) of submission of the wife to her husband .
in my other thread " the Bible ask the wife/woman to submission to the man "
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...7-bible-ask-wife-woman-submission-man-23.html
and you (My sisters and brothers ) disgree with the verse of Quran and Hadiths and trying to find anther meaning , even that you know the meaning in Arabic is the same in English .
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
بالمناسبة اخي ds
قال لي انه ضد مفهوم الاستعباد .... نحن كلنا ضد هذ المفهوم لكن نحن نتحدث على واجب الزوجة لزوجها الى وهو الطاعة كما قال الله تعالى و رسوله
اما واحب الزوج فهذا موضوع اخر....دعنا نتكلم فقط في واجب الزوجة
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
بالمناسبة اخي ds
قال لي انه ضد مفهوم الاستعباد .... نحن كلنا ضد هذ المفهوم لكن نحن نتحدث على واجب الزوجة لزوجها الى وهو الطاعة كما قال الله تعالى و رسوله
اما واحب الزوج فهذا موضوع اخر....دعنا نتكلم فقط في واجب الزوجة

I think it'd be better if we include the Arabic notes on other posts besides the main English ones, as most of the forum members can't read Arabic and posting solely in it would leave them out.

Yes, I'm against enslaving the wife, and to translate, GodObeyer said he is too. That's good, but I'm curious as to what constitutes slavery in your opinion?

By the way, I disagree with the last part of your post. The husband's duty is also connected to this. If a wife is going to obey her husband, the husband also must stick to his duties and not abuse his privileges.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I think it'd be better if we include the Arabic notes on other posts besides the main English ones, as most of the forum members can't read Arabic and posting solely in it would leave them out.

Yes, I'm against enslaving the wife, and to translate, GodObeyer said he is too. That's good, but I'm curious as to what constitutes slavery in your opinion?

By the way, I disagree with the last part of your post. The husband's duty is also connected to this. If a wife is going to obey her husband, the husband also must stick to his duties and not abuse his privileges.
Sorry admin and Badran if i over reaction today .
of course i am with the husband duty , it's work team , and duty exchange , the husband his duty is love and care about his wife , and the wife her duty is obey her husband

are you ok with this ?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry admin and Badran if i over reaction today .
of course i am with the husband duty , it's work team , and duty exchange , the husband his duty is love and care about his wife , and the wife her duty is obey her husband

are you ok with this ?

Agreed, but he shouldn't strangle her as well or take away her freedoms in the name of being the leader, or order her to do things which are morally unacceptable. Also, things may vary depending on whether or not the wife works.

Otherwise, I agree. :)
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Agreed, but he shouldn't strangle her as well or take away her freedoms in the name of being the leader, or order her to do things which are morally unacceptable. Also, things may vary depending on whether or not the wife works.

Otherwise, I agree. :)
that's great brother .
I am with you about the freedom somehow, only if her freedoms is not against and over the obedience that God ask her for .
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
So are we all in agreement now regarding what the verse states? I may have missed it, but it sounds like we are following yesterdays revelation of the source?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
So are we all in agreement now regarding what the verse states? I may have missed it, but it sounds like we are following yesterdays revelation of the source?

There was a horrible source yesterday (Answering-Islam, which is actually an anti-Islamic site), but otherwise I think yeah, we do agree now. :p
 

Enlighten

Well-Known Member
There was a horrible source yesterday (Answering-Islam, which is actually an anti-Islamic site), but otherwise I think yeah, we do agree now. :p

Yeah I saw that shortly before I logged off :faint:. Great news though, love it when a thread reaches a good conclusion :clap

Plus thanks to everyone, including yourself, for helping me understand Islam more. :group:
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah I saw that shortly before I logged off :faint:. Great news though, love it when a thread reaches a good conclusion :clap

Same here, especially when it's gone on for more than 20 pages, lol!

Plus thanks to everyone, including yourself, for helping me understand Islam more. :group:

That's great to hear. :)

You're welcome. I'd frubal everyone in this thread more if I could, but my frubal tank is dry at the moment. :D
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Yeah I saw that shortly before I logged off :faint:. Great news though, love it when a thread reaches a good conclusion :clap

Plus thanks to everyone, including yourself, for helping me understand Islam more. :group:
Good news for 2012 :)
it's all misunderstand we each other , I never mean if the wife submit to her husband , it's lose her rights .
for the freedom , her freedom ends at the rights of her duty .
if the freedom is against her duty (obey) to her husband , she should be sinner
and if he bad use his rights to abuse or slave his wife , he should be sinner too .
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Not trying to rain on the love feet here, but...

Verses aside, Godobeyer, I want you to know that most men do not want his wife to obey him in the way you are thinking. Most women don't want to obey their husbands the way you're suggesting either. Marriage is a partnership, and I can guarantee you that in the vast majority of cases, when spouses show respect and live for each other, their "duties" won't feel like "duties". Rather, they will gladly do things for each other, what is decided between them, and will thrive as a couple. They will be considerate to each other's wishes, so there is no need for "obedience", but instead a partnership that will succeed for the long haul.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Not trying to rain on the love feet here, but...

Verses aside, Godobeyer, I want you to know that most men do not want his wife to obey him in the way you are thinking. Most women don't want to obey their husbands the way you're suggesting either. Marriage is a partnership, and I can guarantee you that in the vast majority of cases, when spouses show respect and live for each other, their "duties" won't feel like "duties". Rather, they will gladly do things for each other, what is decided between them, and will thrive as a couple. They will be considerate to each other's wishes, so there is no need for "obedience", but instead a partnership that will succeed for the long haul.
who tell you most of the women don't want to obey their husband ?
please don't prejuge until verify .
even they don't want , our goal is what God want ,right ? , I know most of the people are practice the law on way of obligation but it's wrong !!!, we need to obey God because he deserve !! ,not because most the women don't want !!! , for that the context changed and the meaning of the verse and Hadiths changed !!!! , and try to find other meaning which be acceptable to our desires !!! honesly if we follow our desires the religions will gone .
and if some muslims woman did not respect the Hadith and verse of Quran about obeying their husband you should follow "imitate" them ?

I told you the arabic meaning is the same in english .
and thanks Allah , Debater had confirm to you , what i told you before , that the wife should obey her husband and inverse her husband should care of her .

his problem is was , why i don't speak about the duty of the husband ?
i told him it's other subject , and i am not against the duty of the husband to her wife .

Salam
 
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Draka

Wonder Woman
You certainly don't seem to want to talk about a husband's "duty". As I have asked you many times about what if a man doesn't provide for his wife, and she instead, provides for him by being the main or sole breadwinner. What of him being a homemaker and taking care of the kids while she earns a good living and handles the finances and such? Is he failing in his "duties"? Even if this is the agreed and accepted arrangement the couple have come to? Is he failing his "duty" to god as a Muslim man by not being the provider?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
You certainly don't seem to want to talk about a husband's "duty". As I have asked you many times about what if a man doesn't provide for his wife, and she instead, provides for him by being the main or sole breadwinner. What of him being a homemaker and taking care of the kids while she earns a good living and handles the finances and such? Is he failing in his "duties"? Even if this is the agreed and accepted arrangement the couple have come to? Is he failing his "duty" to god as a Muslim man by not being the provider?
edited :
no it was intentionally for me to don't repond your questions .
the duty of husband are many:
for exemple :
he must work to feed her ,and by her clothes and everything she want , and he must satisfy her sexual as he want , and he must protect her from any thing and if she ill , he take her to hospital , and everything she want .and he should not beat harmful for any reason or abuse her , or cheat on her .....etc
the result is: she is under his responsisblity.
it not like the west , she and he are equal , maybe she is the responsible for her self or she should work to help him , yes it's colaboration but it's obligation for the woman to work out , in Islam no , the man who should work out , because he is the only responsible .
 
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beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
who tell you most of the women don't want to obey their husband ?
please don't prejuge until verify .
even they don't want , our goal is what God want ,right ? , I know most of the people are practice the law on way of obligation but it's wrong !!!, we need to obey God because he deserve !! ,not because most the women don't want !!! , for that the context changed and the meaning of the verse and Hadiths changed !!!! , and try to find other meaning which be acceptable to our desires !!! honesly if we follow our desires the religions will gone .
and if some muslims woman did not respect the Hadith and verse of Quran about obeying their husband you should follow "imitate" them ?

I told you the arabic meaning is the same in english .
and thanks Allah , Debater had confirm to you , what i told you before , that the wife should obey her husband and inverse her husband should care of her .

his problem is was , why i don't speak about the duty of the husband ?
i told him it's other subject , and i am not against the duty of the husband to her wife .

Salam

Once again you've missed my point, but that's ok, because I'm quite sure most other members got it. :eek:

In simple terms, I am just saying that if both people treat each other with respect, consideration and love, the relationship will succeed. That's all.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In simple terms, I am just saying that if both people treat each other with respect, consideration and love, the relationship will succeed. That's all.
More to the point, many do not need a book to tell them that either, ssainhu. It is a desperate person who looks to books on how to treat others.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
More to the point, many do not need a book to tell them that either, ssainhu. It is a desperate person who looks to books on how to treat others.

...and you know I agree with this. :)

from earlier in this thread:
ssainhu said:
I just happen to be of the opinion that religion doesn't need to dictate a consensual relationship...especially in private matters. Sure, guidelines can be there, but I don't think people need to be told to respect each other. :sarcastic
 
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Draka

Wonder Woman
edited :
no it was intentionally for me to don't repond your questions .
the duty of husband are many:
for exemple :
he must work to feed her ,and by her clothes and everything she want , and he must satisfy her sexual as he want , and he must protect her from any thing and if she ill , he take her to hospital , and everything she want .and he should not beat harmful for any reason or abuse her , or cheat on her .....etc
the result is: she is under his responsisblity.
it not like the west , she and he are equal , maybe she is the responsible for her self or she should work to help him , yes it's colaboration but it's obligation for the woman to work out , in Islam no , the man who should work out , because he is the only responsible .

And you still don't answer. Try to think, imagine for one moment what I'm talking about here.

Husband and wife, in love and in good relationship, find the woman is in a better position, by virtue of her talents, skills, or intellect, to earn a better living than the husband. Or, the husband, by injury, illness, or just cutbacks and layoff where he might have worked, finds himself unable to work, or just not earn near as much as his wife. Not enough for them both to live on, yet she does. So they find themselves in the situation where she is the main financial provider for the family and he is the main homemaker and child rearer.

You cannot possibly tell me that is never a situation in a Muslim household. What I'm asking, is given such a situation, do you consider the man failing in his "duties"? Is he any less of a "man" due to some perceived failure in his "duties"?
 
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