Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Godobeyer]

Once again you've missed my point, but that's ok, because I'm quite sure most other members got it.

In simple terms, I am just saying that if both people treat each other with respect, consideration and love, the relationship will succeed. That's all.

of course I am with you in this .
but i am not sure that you change your mind about the meaning of that verse or hadiths but it's ok , but i advise you to make a search about the "obedience of wife " even if you guess take a visit to a mosque and ask the Imam about it .


Now I know the mistake where is , it's in the some translation of Quran had wrong meaning .
for exemple in this video of shiek
at the minute 2:48 , shiekh Yusuf Estes said "if they return obeidence sit not against them .....etc "
this is errors (meaning) translation of Quran
because in arabic God said " if they obey you"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp8t37MuLm0
4-34

الرجال قوامون على النساء بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض وبما انفقوا من اموالهم فالصالحات قانتات حافظات للغيب بما حفظ الله واللاتي تخافون نشوزهن فعظوهن واهجروهن في المضاجع واضربوهن فان اطعنكم فلا تبغوا عليهن سبيلا ان الله كان عليا كبيرا ​

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

 

[Godobeyer]

And you still don't answer. Try to think, imagine for one moment what I'm talking about here.

Husband and wife, in love and in good relationship, find the woman is in a better position, by virtue of her talents, skills, or intellect, to earn a better living than the husband. Or, the husband, by injury, illness, or just cutbacks and layoff where he might have worked, finds himself unable to work, or just not earn near as much as his wife. Not enough for them both to live on, yet she does. So they find themselves in the situation where she is the main financial provider for the family and he is the main homemaker and child rearer.

You cannot possibly tell me that is never a situation in a Muslim household. What I'm asking, is given such a situation, do you consider the man failing in his "duties"? Is he any less of a "man" due to some perceived failure in his "duties"?

I told the anserwer before but you did not notice it .
if she had rich and feed him because he becomes poor , or ill , uncapable ,
she had the choice to stay with him and she feed him and care about him or ask the divorce .
and even she feed him she should respect God law , and obey her husband , not because he not deserver (poor ,ill ,old ...etc ) but for God , and God will award her by heaven , if she feel mercy about her husband and respect him in that situations .

 

[Badran]

One little problem though, you did it again. You've completely misunderstood what i said. I do not agree with soft beating. I do not agree with submission. In other words, i do not agree with you. I do however agree with Islam's teachings regarding the matter. How? Well its because i don't get the same results you do from them when i read them.
from Badran link :http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2746225-post350.html

God ask the wife to submission to her husband in Quran , and if she disobeys him , He had the right to "soft beat her " :

4-34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

[youtube]u-xV4yUSFaE[/youtube]
‫

In other words, you still refuse to read my posts appropriately or are simply unable to make it past a few sentences (due to lack of care or whatever). Okay then, when you're ready to be serious let me know. Until then please have the courtesy to spare me your ******** advice and stop misrepresenting my position.

 

[Badran]

بالمناسبة اخي ds
قال لي انه ضد مفهوم الاستعباد .... نحن كلنا ضد هذ المفهوم لكن نحن نتحدث على واجب الزوجة لزوجها الى وهو الطاعة كما قال الله تعالى و رسوله
اما واحب الزوج فهذا موضوع اخر....دعنا نتكلم فقط في واجب الزوجة

No, thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about absolute submission of your wife to you. You're talking about beating her if she goes out without your permission. You're talking about slapping her if she gets out of line. You're talking about beating her into having sex with you when she doesn't want to etc...

In other words, you're not representing the opinion of people who simply view the relation to contain a level of authority for things to function and so forth, you look at women as inferior, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it, as its worthless. Its obvious from the start and there's no point for you to avoid admitting that.

 

[beenie]

In other words, you still refuse to read my posts appropriately or are simply unable to make it past a few sentences (due to lack of care or whatever). Okay then, when you're ready to be serious let me know. Until then please have the courtesy to spare me your ******** advice and stop misrepresenting my position.

Oh...SNAP! :clap

No, thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about absolute submission of your wife to you. You're talking about beating her if she goes out without your permission. You're talking about slapping her if she gets out of line. You're talking about beating her into having sex with you when she doesn't want to etc...

In other words, you're not representing the opinion of people who simply view the relation to contain a level of authority for things to function and so forth, you look at women as inferior, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it, as its worthless. Its obvious from the start and there's no point for you to avoid admitting that.

If you were in front of me I'd give you an award.

 

[Draka]

I told the anserwer before but you did not notice it .
if she had rich and feed him because he becomes poor , or ill , uncapable ,
she had the choice to stay with him and she feed him and care about him or ask the divorce .
and even she feed him she should respect God law , and obey her husband , not because he not deserver (poor ,ill ,old ...etc ) but for God , and God will award her by heaven , if she feel mercy about her husband and respect him in that situations .

You keep talking about HER duties! I'm talking about HIS. You have NOT answered the questions I have asked at all, in any post. What is so hard about answering my questions?

IF a wife earns more than the husband,

IF the husband makes less or nothing by EITHER circumstance or choice,

IF the wife then becomes the main financial provider, and the man become the main homemaker and child rearer

IS the man failing in his "duties" to god and his wife as a Muslim man?

I am asking about the husband and HIS duties. NOT what the wife's duties are or how she should react in any way. JUST about how a Muslim man in such a situation is viewed AS A MUSLIM in regards to his perceived "duties".

Can you give any answer remotely on point?

 

[Draka]

In other words, you still refuse to read my posts appropriately or are simply unable to make it past a few sentences (due to lack of care or whatever). Okay then, when you're ready to be serious let me know. Until then please have the courtesy to spare me your ******** advice and stop misrepresenting my position.

No, thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about absolute submission of your wife to you. You're talking about beating her if she goes out without your permission. You're talking about slapping her if she gets out of line. You're talking about beating her into having sex with you when she doesn't want to etc...

In other words, you're not representing the opinion of people who simply view the relation to contain a level of authority for things to function and so forth, you look at women as inferior, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it, as its worthless. Its obvious from the start and there's no point for you to avoid admitting that.

:clap:bow::clap

 

[bigbadgirl]

How does a Muslim wife keep her husband in line?

 

[Draka]

How does a Muslim wife keep her husband in line?

How dare a wife even think she has any call over how her husband acts or what he does? Her's is not to question him, just to obey his every little whim, ask his permission for everything and lay down for him when he wants. :sarcastic


*sarcasm not directed at you, just a particular stance in this thread*

 

[bigbadgirl]

I think the laying down part is what most Muslim men think about when they talk about keeping a wife in line.

 

[Debater Slayer]

In other words, you still refuse to read my posts appropriately or are simply unable to make it past a few sentences (due to lack of care or whatever). Okay then, when you're ready to be serious let me know. Until then please have the courtesy to spare me your ******** advice and stop misrepresenting my position.

Brother, I realize that you are frustrated, but I think we should be calmer than this.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm patronizing you or anything, just that I hope we can keep this within the acceptable realm.

Argue with what is best.

 

[Badran]

Brother, I realize that you are frustrated, but I think we should be calmer than this.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm patronizing you or anything, just that I hope we can keep this within the acceptable realm.

Argue with what is best.

Thanks DS, i appreciate and understand what you're saying.

You are right and i agree with you, i should remain calm even though i'm extremely frustrated.

 

[bigbadgirl]

Why are you frustrated?

 

[Meow Mix]

To those who are getting frustrated, just keep in mind that people who would assume Godobeyer's interpretation of Islam applies to all Muslims probably aren't worth the time anyway if they can't figure out that Godobeyer's interpretation is vastly outnumbered even by fellow Muslims here.

I get the frustration though. There are a lot of atheists that say facepalm-worthy things that frustrate me, too.

Plus, I think Godobeyer's a fundamentally good guy -- perhaps just with a misguided idea of relationships.

 

[Draka]

I would think the reason that Badran's getting frustrated is that he has tried to explain his stance, in very well written posts, over and over, in more than one thread, all for Godobeyer, and Godobeyer has repeatedly misrepresented what Badran has said time and again to other people...as if Badran was supporting his own views when that simply isn't the case.

 

[Meow Mix]

I would think the reason that Badran's getting frustrated is that he has tried to explain his stance, in very well written posts, over and over, in more than one thread, all for Godobeyer, and Godobeyer has repeatedly misrepresented what Badran has said time and again to other people...as if Badran was supporting his own views when that simply isn't the case.

I've interpreted that as a language barrier issue. Godobeyer has quoted sites without realizing the sites were satirical, for instance. I don't think he's doing it on purpose

 

[bigbadgirl]

Humanist. Very good. Godobeyer's? No idea. I believe I will never recieve an answer to my question. Calling Badran!

 

[YmirGF]

In other words, you still refuse to read my posts appropriately or are simply unable to make it past a few sentences (due to lack of care or whatever). Okay then, when you're ready to be serious let me know. Until then please have the courtesy to spare me your ******** advice and stop misrepresenting my position.

No, thats not what you're talking about. You're talking about absolute submission of your wife to you. You're talking about beating her if she goes out without your permission. You're talking about slapping her if she gets out of line. You're talking about beating her into having sex with you when she doesn't want to etc...

In other words, you're not representing the opinion of people who simply view the relation to contain a level of authority for things to function and so forth, you look at women as inferior, pure and simple. Don't sugar coat it, as its worthless. Its obvious from the start and there's no point for you to avoid admitting that.

Awesome has a new name and it is Badran. :beach:

 

[YmirGF]

I've interpreted that as a language barrier issue. Godobeyer has quoted sites without realizing the sites were satirical, for instance. I don't think he's doing it on purpose

One can hardly describe Answering-Islam as a satirical site, Kitty Mix. They are quite serious. I do agree about the language issue though. Obviously, Godobeyer's English is a bit off.

 

[Pegg]

edited :
no it was intentionally for me to don't repond your questions .
the duty of husband are many:
for exemple :
he must work to feed her ,and by her clothes and everything she want , and he must satisfy her sexual as he want , and he must protect her from any thing and if she ill , he take her to hospital , and everything she want .and he should not beat harmful for any reason or abuse her , or cheat on her .....etc
the result is: she is under his responsisblity.
it not like the west , she and he are equal , maybe she is the responsible for her self or she should work to help him , yes it's colaboration but it's obligation for the woman to work out , in Islam no , the man who should work out , because he is the only responsible .

what if the husband gets sick or injured and cannot work? How will he provide for his family if only he can be the breadwinner???

This is a major flaw of the Quran in my opinion. When very tight rules are imposed such as 'the wife is the house servant and man is the worker outside the house', then it can make life very difficult if your circumstances change.

If the man cannot work due to illness, then surely a wife should be able to do so to support her family...if she cannot because the religion has established a rule that she must only work at home, then the family will starve. Where is the wisdom in that?