Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Pegg]

you not have read quran? it tell to beat if disobedient. 4.34
good woman learn mistake from beating, after feel emotionally happy.
why quran teach beating if no good in it?

If my husband hit me, i'd leave him because i will not live with a violent person full stop.

It does not make women feel emotionally happy to be hit by their husbands. They are the women in our society who turn to drugs and alcholol to cope with the domestic violence they experience. If it made them happy, they wouldnt go to the police and have the man removed from their house.

think about it... muslims teach that God is all Merciful. A man who hits his wife is not being merciful. So you should be taught to be merciful to your wives just as Allah is merciful to you. Or do you think that mercy is only for you and not your wife?

 

[Kerr]

do you ask your trust Imam in masjid about this ? or check muslim forums ?

Do you think she lives her life in a cave? Chained to a chair with only a computer as contact to the outside world? And that computer can only go to this site?

If not, why would you assume she has not already talked to other Muslims about this?

 

[Godobeyer]

Oh, and this whole post is sick. How dare you try and say who will go to hell and who won't? I didn't say Badran is the only other Muslim here, but he IS an Arabic speaking Muslim, as is Debater Slayer, and neither of them agree with you.

now is one of two you forget or lie
yesterday Debater , said that he agree with me .

this is his reply #1217

 

[Storm]

now is one of two you forget or lie
yesterday Debater , said that he agree with me .

this is his reply #1217

Yeah, maybe you should reread it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Do you think she lives her life in a cave? Chained to a chair with only a computer as contact to the outside world? And that computer can only go to this site?

If not, why would you assume she has not already talked to other Muslims about this?

I am not sure about anything now .

 

[Kerr]

I do NOT trust online forums, I want to see the scholar in person...and I have.
Most of the Muslim forums are filled with misinformed people claiming to be able to translate Qur'an, Hadith, and make fatawa.

Exactly.

The Internet is not just a place for information. Its also a place for wrong and flawed information.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yeah, maybe you should reread it.

He told me privatly he is with me , and in this repy , he said I TOLD YOU I AM WITH IT

 

[Kerr]

I am not sure about anything now .

Then my job is done . Muhahahaha!

To be serious, all I am trying to say is that you cannot assume that someone who disagree with you is misinformed or have not talked to creditable sources. To do so is actually quite arrogant.

 

[Storm]

He told me privatly he is with me , and in this repy , he said I TOLD YOU I AM WITH IT

1) I don't believe you that he privately supports you.
2) You left out most of what he said publicly. Try reading whole sentences.

 

[Godobeyer]

I do NOT trust online forums, I want to see the scholar in person...and I have.
Most of the Muslim forums are filled with misinformed people claiming to be able to translate Qur'an, Hadith, and make fatawa.

and who trusted a person changing the meaning of Quran verse , without any reference ( individualy)
the editor of the context of Quran could be ,punish in this life . and i hope so anyone editing the context of Quran should God take care of him in this life and hereafter

Say , AMEEN

 

[Kerr]

now is one of two you forget or lie
yesterday Debater , said that he agree with me .

this is his reply #1217

You misunderstand him. He said the following.

Hey, I told you I'm with it, but not the way you view it.

Note the bolded, italic and underscored "not"?

I think what people here are trying to say is that "obey" doesnt equal "ask permission for everything" and that "submit to your husband" doesnt mean "abandon all your dreams, sit home and rot and do not do anything without asking him first".

 

[beenie]

Hey, I told you I'm with it, but not the way you view it. Not in an authoritarian, autocratic way; not in a way that allows the husband to do whatever the heck he wants in the name of being a "leader". The husband is a leader and the wife should obey him (and that, also, depends on a lot of variables, so to speak), to reiterate, but not in a way that enslaves her and makes her suffer as a mere sexual object.

There. Please, next time you talk about what I support or don't support, make sure to ask me to come here to explain first.

و يشهد الله أني الآن أتكلم بغض النظر عن أي شئ و بغض النظر عن آراء الآخرين في، و لكني لا أقبل أن يتم تأويل تفاسير القرآن كي تكون في صالح غطرسة و ظلم بعض الأزواج كما يفعل البعض

On another note, I had hoped that my talk with GodObeyer was enough to call for a truce and end this thread well. For shame.

I'm sorry to play Switzerland here, but it's the only way to relate your thoughts to each other as the language barrier is really bad. I discussed this with GodObeyer via PM and I got what he meant, and despite not agreeing with all of it, I realized that he can't express most of it clearly here, hence why most of it comes across as completely absurd.

GodObeyer thinks that the wife should obey her husband, according to interpretations of the Qur'an, but not in a way that turns her into a slave of the husband. It's a relationship of mutual respect, and the husband should perform his duties fully as well to earn that. Only a respectable, duty-fulfilling husband is eligible for full rights.

In other words, a husband has as much rights as he fulfills his duties. The same holds true for the wife.

I hope this was helpful, and if any of you have any more questions regarding the debate or any difficulties understanding each other, I'd be more than happy to help.

Edit: I thought I should add this to reinforce my statements: I'm an Arabic native speaker, from Egypt, and I currently live in Saudi Arabia. You know what that means? It means I actually live in the country of Mecca and Medina, and the two Harams. No more questions of language barriers or being a "Western" Muslim.

Doesn't seem like full agreement to me, and English is my first language.

The second half of his post is explaining Godobeyer's view, NOT agreeing with it.

 

[Kerr]

We are at 130 pages, have not come anywhere and everyone just appears to be tearing their hair from their heads! Maybe its time to let the thread die.

 

[Vinayaka]

We are at 130 pages, have not come anywhere and everyone just appears to be tearing their hair from their heads! Maybe its time to let the thread die.

It's just a bunch of people taking turns ... all havin' a go at it ... with nobody being very successful at all.. like 30 different farmers all taking a turn at leading the horse to water... none of them being successful at making him drink.

 

[beenie]

and who trusted a person changing the meaning of Quran verse , without any reference ( individualy)
the editor of the context of Quran could be ,punish in this life . and i hope so anyone editing the context of Quran should God take care of him in this life and hereafter

Say , AMEEN

The person I consulted did NOT change the words or the meaning of the Qur'an verse, he explained them to our group.

 

[Blackdog22]

This is the story about how Atheism came about and people lived in peace without "interpretation", and it was good.

 

[Badran]

Badran shock me by this claim and his fast nervse reaction . he told me that he would anwser my question when He calm down . but i guess he did not calm down .
I was too over reaction , and say sorry to him , but i guess he did not notice that .

بدران يا اخي انا اسف كنت انفعلت ويكفينا انفعال يضر صمعة المسلمين و الاسلام
لكن ان نصل إلى سب تفسير العلاماء و تحريف معنى القرأن و الاحاديث هذا لا يجوز
انت مصري و عربي و مسلم وانا كذالك

You're right, i didn't calm down. In fact, the reason i was not going to respond to your PM and to your posts here was because i couldn't calm down, i simply was unable to think of anything to say to you that is not horrible to put it lightly. I've never been provoked in this forum by anyone as much as i've been provoked by you.

Even in this post while you're trying to calm things down you still accused me in the Arabic part of intentionally changing the meaning of Quran and Hadiths. When in fact all you needed to do was to read my posts in order to know how disturbing what you're doing is. Just so you understand, i was watching these threads you've been making and had decided not to post because although i disagreed wholeheartedly with you, i thought you were a pretty decent guy being that you were taking everyone's disagreement in a good way.

I only posted when i felt that you were getting frustrated, only and solely to HELP you understand from where the disagreements are stemming. I had specifically said that i was not trying to argue the issue as much as i'm trying to help you (because i knew we would end up like this if we argued the issue).

In any case, i apologize for anything bad i said to you and i think we should drop the subject at this point.

 

[gnostic]

Why on earth does Dr. Naik compare a child jumping from a window to a husband/wife relationship? Women are not children. If the husband is the leader, it doesn't mean that he has to "lightly beat her with a miswak".

Absolutely insane, isn't it?

That's why I think Naik is a bl@@dy idiot.

His example about a child leaping out of building cannot be compared with a relationship of husband and wife. What a moron.

And this Naik giving them advice of beating their wives without leaving a mark. This guy is literally advocating domestic violence, and get away with the crime without the police getting involved. SWEET! Can you believe it?

In the second video, women are being compared to criminals. Nice.

Whatever. More verbal garbage.

I did not even bother to watch TruthSpeaker's 2nd video, because the 1st one made me sick in the stomach.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

130 pages? Really?

Y'all, we have two dubious characters that are advocating spousal abuse and swearing that women love and respect getting slapped around when the husband thinks she's being "disobedient"....Like smoking a cigarette. Or going out of the house without asking for permission. Or smiling while talking with another man since she just might "make sex" with him.

Or getting slapped for not having sex with him when he wants.....it's beyond ridiculous.

Now there's the accusation from these same members toward those who are of the same faith that they're going to hell.

I agree with the sentiment that the community should let this thread die. We obviously have a couple of members here that are succeeding in causing headaches and increased levels of stomach acid.

I'm highly suspicious here.

 

[gnostic]

women who obeys allah know that wife beating is allowed, so she is not emotionally harmed by beating.

So Allah is nothing more than misogynistic tyrant, and he wants husbands be like him? Sweet.

Not "emotionally harmed"? Yeah, right.

If this marriage life is like in Muslim home, then I certainly don't want to convert to Islam.