Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Kerr]

just too much critisize hiding your faults.

Over 130 pages and we have not come anywhere, does it surprise you that she is frustrated?

 

[Kerr]

Maybe there is a difference. Still, I think that in the past many cultures saw women as the property of men. Today kids are seen somewhat as the property of adults who can hit them if they want to.

Not where I live.

 

[Pegg]

beating is not for hobby like dancing, beating allowed when mistake is done.

do men also get a beating when they make a mistake? and who does the beating?

 

[Pegg]

If something is a mistake, then shouldn't the response be to forgive? Something which is a mistake is forgivable.

in christianity yes,

but i get the impression that in Islam, the punishment itself is considered the mercy by some.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Over 130 pages and we have not come anywhere?

how do? people not open minded. ssainhu and her friends just playing here no serious.
ssaihnu told she cant change her mind even if after get enough proves, but she like to critisize everything against it very arrogant. is it not suprise you?


i here ready and serious, if you are serious.

does it surprise you that she is frustrated?

she must swallaow capsules than criticize innocence or i get frustrated.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

do men also get a beating when they make a mistake? and who does the beating?

scholars decide.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

sister sainhu, you told lie? i looked thread complete but unable to get your submission definition post.

 

[Looncall]

i dont know what you think, husband can punish wife if she disobedient, if she think she is correct but received beating she can go complain to parents or scholars.



Policeman can beat citizen, if citizen think injustice happen he can go to court. Same can follow wife if husband do injustice

Really? What barbaric place do you live in? Where I live, policemen are in big trouble if they beat citizens.

 

[Looncall]

if it dont bring good to husband and wife, then why quran say to beat wife? firstly, do you agree with wife beating?

Why do you suppose that it is right to beat anyone? No civilized person would think that.

As I see it, if the quran promotes wife beating, everyone should discard the quran. Why follow something that promotes things that are so obviously immoral?

 

[Kerr]

how do? people not open minded. ssainhu and her friends just playing here no serious.
ssaihnu told she cant change her mind even if after get enough proves, but she like to critisize everything against it very arrogant. is it not suprise you?


i here ready and serious, if you are serious.

This discussion is a complex mess of language barriers, misunderstandings, straw man arguments and a lot of other mistakes you can make in a serious discussion. Then there is also a value difference, in that most people here do not consider violence in any form to be acceptable in a relationship. Use these as ingredients for a dinner. What do you get? A rather distasteful soup. And that is what this thread has turned into. That is why she is frustrated. That is why many people here are frustrated. That is why you will probably get very frustrated. And when people get frustrated, they tend to argue without thinking. At least I do. And... here is the thing. That only makes things worse. Soon we will all be bold because we have ripped out all our hair in frustration!

And do not take this as me blaming either "side". Both "sides" does this.

she must swallaow capsules than criticize innocence or i get frustrated.

See what I mean?

 

[Pegg]

scholars decide.

so if a man makes a mistake, a scholar must decide if he is to be beaten, but if a woman makes a mistake, her husband must beat her?

how does the woman know that the mans judgement about her mistake is fair and just? Im sure not all men are scholars in Islam... so how can she be sure and how can he be sure if he has done the right thing??

 

[Debater Slayer]

If it weren't for badran or ssainhu or debater slayer and I have to listen yours and Godobeyer's view alone, then I would assume all Muslims are backward as you two.

This is all good, positive stuff, but then...

All you have proven is how weak-minded and misogynistic Muslim men are. Why don't the husband seek out scholar's advice?

If a husband can't admit he is wrong, then what bl@@dy use is this Qur'an is?

...then you made a generalization and effectively called the Qur'an "useless".

If our replies here really changed anything in your views, why would you still say such things?

all people of ksa speak Arabic, you say all they are wrong?
islam lifesyle in ksa is due to they pass lifestyle to young generation, not by interpreting verses only, and you say wife beating added to it in the middle? you see, nowhere in earth islam praciced good as ksa, it is only because islam is born in ksa.

No, please, for Allah's sake say something that's true.

Don't even get me started on this. I live in KSA, so that pretty much throws your argument out of the window, but why leave it lying there? I want to crush it even more.

Here in KSA we have a lot of good scholars, and very tolerant, open-minded ones too. But you saying that "nowhere in earth islam praciced good as ksa" is as truthful as me saying that there are no Muslims outside the Middle East. It's just not true because you can't scan each and every single person to verify how good they practice Islam.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of "the West blah blah blah" or "speak Arabic then interpret" or how about this one, "you want to change meaning of verses" arguments.

No, I don't want to change any meanings of any verses, and no, I'm not "Western"; not "cuckold", and certainly not going to discriminate between people of the same faith based on their race/nationality. That's just sickening.

Have we forgotten about all of the important issues in the Middle East and Islamic countries like Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Sudan, to name a few, that we need to find a topic to argue over so much that the thread has redundantly stretched to over 100 pages worth of repeated arguments?

Yeah, we really do need an Arab Spring to help some people get over their old ways of thinking, too.

 

[gnostic]

In Islam, Muslims believed that their religion and their scripture is as perfect as their god.

I don't see any religion being "PERFECT", especially if it teaches that it is ok for a husband to treat a wife like a slave or lowly servant whom he can beat for disobedience.

I don't see how that is possible for perfection to exist, when the scripture contained passages which may have several or more interpretations.

 

[gnostic]

...then you made a generalization and effectively called the Qur'an "useless".

If our replies here really changed anything in your views, why would you still say such things?

Sorry, debater slayer, I don't mean to offend. The generalization was deliberate, but I should have made myself clearer, when I wrote that post.

When I said "have proven", I should have said that the comments made by Godobeyer and Truthspeaker (as well as their interpretation of the scriptures), give us (non-Muslim) a negative image of Muslim men and towards the Qur'an. If I was to read only their posts alone, my outlook on Islam would definitely be negative. The 2 videos from Truthspeaker also give negative image on Muslims (I still haven't watch the 2nd video) and Naik seemed to condone domestic violence. It is not the sort of image that bode well for Muslims, especially for Muslim women.

And there are comments from you and others who showed a more positive and tolerant side to Islam and to Muslims.

 

[beenie]

TruthSpeaker, I did not tell a lie, I have explained that my submission will go to Allah alone.

 

[Sakeenah]

what I have understood is that quite alot are getting frustrated ...ok first before I start lets do a small excersize ..breath in and out..close your eyes..okay now open your eyes..and smile.. ..okay say to yourself 10 times ' I'm not frustrated'..don't you feel alot better:rainbow1:!
okay now you can pay me with frubals

I agree that certain posts on this thread are giving non-muslims a negative image of muslim men and islam..and this is what made me quite frustrated..Because I know that majority of the muslim men who follow and practice islam are wonderful husbands,fathers,sons and brothers..because this how the prophet (peace be upon him) was and this is what the Quran orders us.
If I look at the muslim men around me such as my father,my brothers,uncles I see men who love & honour their wives,daughters and sisters.
My father is someone who strictly follows the quran and sunnah but he has never hit my mother or ordered her around..he treats her how he wants to be treated..he gives my mother her right.
And in return my mother gives him his rights and respects him and does her best to make him happy..
marriage in islam isn't about the husband opressing the wife..its based on love, mercy and working and suppprting eachother to be better people and servants of God.

yes there are a minority of muslim men(but I also think there are non-muslim men who are like this) who think that you marry a wife just so that she can cook and clean for you and to fulfill other desires..but I think these are mostly men who are weak and insecure..and they have a lack knowledge and wisdom. And as women we shouldn't marry those men.

my advise to non-muslims get to know muslims in your community..so you can judge for yourself

 

[beenie]

what I have understood is that quite alot are getting frustrated ...ok first before I start lets do a small excersize ..breath in and out..close your eyes..okay now open your eyes..and smile.. ..okay say to yourself 10 times ' I'm not frustrated'..don't you feel alot better:rainbow1:!
okay now you can pay me with frubals

I agree that certain posts on this thread are giving non-muslims a negative image of muslim men and islam..and this is what made me quite frustrated..Because I know that majority of the muslim men who follow and practice islam are wonderful husbands,fathers,sons and brothers..because this how the prophet (peace be upon him) was and this is what the Quran orders us.
If I look at the muslim men around me such as my father,my brothers,uncles I see men who love & honour their wives,daughters and sisters.
My father is someone who strictly follows the quran and sunnah but he has never hit my mother or ordered her around..he treats her how he wants to be treated..he gives my mother her right.
And in return my mother gives him his rights and respects him and does her best to make him happy..
marriage in islam isn't about the husband opressing the wife..its based on love, mercy and working and suppprting eachother to be better people and servants of God.

yes there are a minority of muslim men(but I also think there are non-muslim men who are like this) who think that you marry a wife just so that she can cook and clean for you and to fulfill other desires..but I think these are mostly men who are weak and insecure..and they have a lack knowledge and wisdom. And as women we shouldn't marry those men.

my advise to non-muslims get to know muslims in your community..so you can judge for yourself

Exactly. It's the whole "do unto others" deal.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

TruthSpeaker, I did not tell a lie, I have explained that my submission will go to Allah alone.

TruthSpeaker : Sister ssainhu, islam teach to live under will of allah, not per our wish. If he makes rule dont judge right or wrong, just obey it, that is only submission. Slave of allah not will question right and wrong.

ssainhu : i interpret this whole ayah differently than you and Godobeyer. Simple enough.

TruthSpeaker : Ssainu siter disagreed me about submission, i also like to know what muslims understand about submission?


ssainhu : I have explained that my submission will go to Allah alone.
but what is submission, you disagreed my idea of submission
sister ssainhu, what ******* answer is this ?

stop making me fool again, if no interest debate with me take back all words used against me. I start hate this place because your character.

 

[Debater Slayer]

TruthSpeaker : Sister ssainhu, islam teach to live under will of allah, not per our wish. If he makes rule dont judge right or wrong, just obey it, that is only submission. Slave of allah not will question right and wrong.

ssainhu : i interpret this whole ayah differently than you and Godobeyer. Simple enough.

TruthSpeaker : Ssainu siter disagreed me about submission, i also like to know what muslims understand about submission?


ssainhu : I have explained that my submission will go to Allah alone.
but what is submission, you disagreed my idea of submission
sister ssainhu, what ******* answer is this ?

stop making me fool again, if no interest debate with me take back all words used against me. I start hate this place because your character.

You seem to be forgetting about this verse while talking about Islamic matters:

"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from his path, and who receive guidance." 16: 125.

Brother, you're not doing your argument any good using content like obscured curse words and issuing personal attacks on your opponents.

 

[TruthSpeaker]

Brother, you're not doing your argument any good using content like obscured curse words and issuing personal attacks on your opponents.

i see these words in this thread many times, but i not typed bad words, only type * 7 times,so no problem. I not cursed no one.