Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[Draka]

Now women have to ask permission to work? I thought you said they had the right to work but they weren't forced. Then again, you seem to have this idea that women in the west are forced to work. Women here do not need their husband's permission to work if she wants. Nor are women "forced" to work. We may find necessity dictates that we work, but there isn't force, nor is there the requirement of permission.

 

[Godobeyer]

Turk has never slapped me and if he ever did I'd most likely slap him right back and tell him to get out.

I hope that day will never come .

You don't slap someone you love. Because if you truly love them you view them as an extension of yourself and hurting them would essentially be hurting yourself.

for me it's an option (solution ) , not everytime it's incase my wife goes crazy (out of control ) with me .

Slapping as a means of "correction" is still abuse. I would want to know why the husband has a problem with her speaking to a particular guy. If the guy is a sleaze or criminal or grabby with women then it would make sense for the husband to say to stay away from the guy. But if the guy in question happens to be a friend of the wife and the husband is telling her not to talk to her friend because he is jealous and controlling, then that is the husband's problem. The wife should not be expected to dump her friends simply because the husband is jealous. Jealousy is a sign of trust issues most commonly on the part of the jealous person. The husband should seek therapy

i ask you a question if you found you husband drinking with girl or something provoke you to "jeoalusy" , you may go to him and slap him front her . it's just reaction to show that you are angery .and this situation is not acceptable for you .and the inverse that"s my point , that's "the slap of love " you slap your lover because you blame him for such situation .

each action has reaction , maybe you just slap him , other woman in the same situation will accept and pass that , other woman will kill him ....etc

edited : i hope you get my point .

 

[waitasec]

first of all i notice that you have many "if"s

i can only see one...
such a small word...with a big meaning i suppose

honestly i did not get you point , but i will try to answser "if " in red .
you mean if god order the man to obey his wife (inverse situation) , for me i will obey god order , and i will obey my wife .

no, that isn't what i mean at all. i mean if a muslim man where to pretend to be one way to a woman he wants to marry and then they marry, he then shows his true self as a controlling person, of which he didn't show of any signs of being that way before they got married, and he controls his wife by using passive aggressive tactics or just aggressive ones, what is she to do now?

what is the relation between my early reply and this question ?

it's real life isn't it.

women are virgins before they marry, then when they are married they are not...so with this in mind, as a woman who wants to leave her husband because of the way he treated her, how can she get out of the marriage? and how are divorced women seen as in the muslim culture...?

no her responsibility/duty is her subordinate .as he responsible to her more , in the normal case just he who work out for her and his/her kids .
and if she want to work to help him , she need to take his permission .

but aren't we each responsible for ourselves ultimately, why put so much pressure on the man...or responsibility on the man...just because he earns money? i think money is a secondary issue...we are talking about the dynamics between the relationship of 2 people.

 

[Godobeyer]

Now women have to ask permission to work? I thought you said they had the right to work but they weren't forced. Then again, you seem to have this idea that women in the west are forced to work. Women here do not need their husband's permission to work if she wants. Nor are women "forced" to work. We may find necessity dictates that we work, but there isn't force, nor is there the requirement of permission.

I now that the woman in the west , the work is optional , but most of time requirement and obligation.

 

[Draka]

for me it's an option (solution ) , not everytime it's incase my wife goes crazy (out of control ) with me .

And if you go crazy on her can she slap you, and will you accept it that you just got out of control and deserved it?

i ask you a question if you found you husband drinking with girl or something provoke you to "jeoalusy" , you may go to him and slap him front her . it's just reaction to show that you are angery .and this situation is not acceptable for you .and the inverse that"s my point , that's "the slap of love " you slap your lover because you blame him for such situation .

each action has reaction , maybe you just slap him , other woman in the same situation will accept and pass that , other woman will kill him ....etc

edited : i hope you get my point .

I'm not a jealous person. My husband has female friends. As a matter of fact, his longest friends he's had in his life are female. I also have male friends and always have as I have always been quite a tomboy and have worked in a male-dominated field. We don't begrudge each other our friends. If he wanted to hang at a bar with a woman who was his friend, so be it. I have that freedom as well.

 

[Draka]

I now that the woman in the west , the work is optional , but most of time requirement and obligation.

Where do you get your information? The only time it can be considered a requirement or obligation is when a woman must provide for her family because she has no partner or her partner has no income, perhaps due to loss of employment. Women are not required to work, just as men are not required. It boils down to necessity and desire to live comfortably.

 

[Godobeyer]

i can only see one...
such a small word...with a big meaning i suppose

agreed

no, that isn't what i mean at all. i mean if a muslim man where to pretend to be one way to a woman he wants to marry and then they marry, he then shows his true self as a controlling person, of which he didn't show of any signs of being that way before they got married, and he controls his wife by using passive aggressive tactics or just aggressive ones, what is she to do now?

accuatly the muslim men , knows that the western girl not like a muslim girl , he should know that he will face some culture (your way of living)/religion problems before the mariage , acuatly this mariage is not required for me .
I guess that most of muslim are not pretend to be nice than , because he know what he choose to marry .
acuatly there are many succeful or fail mariages .between muslims and non muslims girls .

it's real life isn't it.

women are virgins before they marry, then when they are married they are not...so with this in mind, as a woman who wants to leave her husband because of the way he treated her, how can she get out of the marriage? and how are divorced women seen as in the muslim culture...?

ah , ok , the divoced woman , can be remarry again by divoce man or by someone love her .there is no problem because her lost her virginity .it's the destiny and god willing.
for exemple if I want to marry i should choose a virgin woman because I am virgin .

but aren't we each responsible for ourselves ultimately, why put so much pressure on the man...or responsibility on the man...just because he earns money? i think money is a secondary issue...we are talking about the dynamics between the relationship of 2 people.

in our religion the woman goes out to work only in neccerity (not obligation ) , for me if i prefer to marry a woman which help me (but not all kind of works) , but i will not force her or ask her to go out to work for us .
it's my duty to work out , and her duty in the house, and to raise my kids .

 

[Godobeyer]

Where do you get your information? The only time it can be considered a requirement or obligation is when a woman must provide for her family because she has no partner or her partner has no income, perhaps due to loss of employment. Women are not required to work, just as men are not required. It boils down to necessity and desire to live comfortably.

acuatly from movies hhhhhhhhhhhh

i ask you a question did you work before , or working ?

 

[waitasec]

agreed


accuatly the muslim men , knows that the western girl not like a muslim girl , he should know that he will face some culture (your way of living)/religion problems before the mariage , acuatly this mariage is not required for me .

i'm not thinking about a muslim man and a western woman...
lets keep this as simple as possible...
i'm talking about a muslim man marrying a girl who happens to share the same culture.

I guess that most of muslim are not pretend to be nice than , because he know what he choose to marry .

i'm not sure i follow what you mean here...
are you saying men will get married regardless if they are nice or not?

acuatly there are many succeful or fail mariages .between muslims and non muslims girls .

interesting, you didn't include men

ah , ok , the divoced woman , can be remarry again by divoce man or by someone love her .there is no problem because her lost her virginity .it's the destiny and god willing.
for exemple if I want to marry i should choose a virgin woman because I am virgin

.
makes total sense...we all have that right after all...

lets change this up though...what if the virgin girl wants to marry a virgin man...?

see i'm not so sure about the courting rituals in your country...are marriages arranged or are they set up to where the couple get to decide. or does the man get to choose? forgive my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand your POV.

in our religion the woman goes out to work only in neccerity (not obligation ) , for me if i prefer to marry a woman which help me (but not all kind of works) , but i will not force her or ask her to go out to work for us .
it's my duty to work out , and her duty in the house, and to raise my kids .

what if the woman has the opportunity to earn more than the man?

 

[Debater Slayer]

acuatly from movies hhhhhhhhhhhh

i ask you a question did you work before , or working ?

Are you serious? Do you actually form views of entire cultures based on what you see in the movies?

 

[Godobeyer]

i'm not thinking about a muslim man and a western woman...
lets keep this as simple as possible...
i'm talking about a muslim man marrying a girl who happens to share the same culture.

ah , sorry for misuderstand , accuatly there is a period called " engagement" they need to make deal for everything , to don't not be shocked in the mariage .
what he hate (things) , what he love , what she hate , what she love , they need to know each other more and more in that period to decide if they continous or not .

for the problem of "pretend" it's exist in every one , that her bad luck and bad destiny and inverse is true , if she pretend that she will do everything he want and find other thing ...etc

i'm not sure i follow what you mean here...
are you saying men will get married regardless if they are nice or not?

no i want to say that Muslim man ,if he want to marry a non muslim girl , that he will face some dificulty with her because difference of religion and culture

interesting, you didn't include men

.
makes total sense...we all have that right after all...

lets change this up though...what if the virgin girl wants to marry a virgin man...?

she had the right to marry any one she want virgin or not virgin .she had the right to choose her husband .

see i'm not so sure about the courting rituals in your country...are marriages arranged or are they set up to where the couple get to decide. or does the man get to choose? forgive my ignorance, i'm just trying to understand your POV.

all of these kind of mariage are existed in all muslims countries , and in my country it's prefer to know they each other before the mariage .

what if the woman has the opportunity to earn more than the man?

for me no problem , if did not make her feel that she better than me "arrogant"

 

[waitasec]

ah , sorry for misuderstand , accuatly there is a period called " engagement" they need to make deal for everything , to don't not be shocked in the mariage .
what he hate (things) , what he love , what she hate , what she love , they need to know each other more and more in that period to decide if they continous or not .

for the problem of "pretend" it's exist in every one , that her bad luck and bad destiny and inverse is true , if she pretend that she will do everything he want and find other thing ...etc

ok...fair enough...
so is it written anywhere that the woman can set the man straight as the man can the woman?

all of these kind of mariage are existed in all muslims countries , and in my country it's prefer to know they each other before the mariage .

i think you and i are in agreement here...

for me no problem , if did not make her feel that she better than me "arrogant"

but if one knows the person they are marrying they should be aware of that tendency... but then i have to ask, why would a spouse act in an arrogant fashion if they earn more than their partner, if the marriage is about supporting a team. we have a saying here that goes, 'there is no "i" in team'


thank you for taking your time to explain...
it is appreciated.

 

[Godobeyer]

thank you for taking your time to explain...
it is appreciated.

no problem sister you welcome any time for any question .

 

[Godobeyer]

Are you serious? Do you actually form views of entire cultures based on what you see in the movies?

Yes , we can consider the movies as a source of info about the culture .
for exemple we the Algerian , watch syrian and egyptian movies and series , from them we know their culture and way of living ....etc

 

[Enlighten]

Yes , we can consider the movies as a source of info about the culture .
for exemple we the Algerian , watch syrian and egyptian movies and series , from them we know their culture and way of living ....etc

movies do not reflect real life, they are purely a source of entertainment.

Actually let me say, some are based on true-stories etc but I'm pretty sure I can see there will be added dramatics for entertainment purposes in these also. What movies have you taken your view on the west from?

 

[not nom]

movies do not reflect real life, they are purely a source of entertainment.

that may be true, but I choose to not believe it.

 

[Draka]

acuatly from movies hhhhhhhhhhhh

i ask you a question did you work before , or working ?

Movies?

I actually started working when I was 14. Because I wanted to. I wanted my own independence and my own income. I worked normal teenage jobs like store clerk and fast food worker until I graduated high school and joined the military. I was trained and educated to be an electrician for helicopters and that is what I did. When I got out I worked for a few years working both maintenance and production in a factory, then on to working customer service for a telephone company. I went to college for accounting and administration. I've actually held a variety of jobs in my life. I was independent and didn't have to rely upon someone else to fend for me. Currently, and for the first time in my life, I do not work outside the home. I am a SAHM and when the kids are both in school I will return tot he workforce. This arrangement was a decision made between myself and my husband. If I wanted to work right now we'd find a daycare set up so that I could, but I CHOOSE not to work now and in a few years I will CHOOSE to return to the workforce.

You see, not everything in life in the west is like it is in movies. Honestly, if you are going by movies you really haven't a clue. Why don't you try to take it from the people who live here?

 

[internationalist]

Now women have to ask permission to work? I thought you said they had the right to work but they weren't forced. Then again, you seem to have this idea that women in the west are forced to work. Women here do not need their husband's permission to work if she wants. Nor are women "forced" to work. We may find necessity dictates that we work, but there isn't force, nor is there the requirement of permission.

Men, women - we're all forced to work in some way. We don't do it voluntarily, we do it for material reasons (rather than for the joy of working)

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Ok folks, how about a slight change of perspective. What we are really talking about here is dominance. So lets remove the cultural and gender specific aspects and look at the root, dominance.

Should there be a dominate party in a relationship?
Should a relationship be a partnership with equal standing?
Should all relationships be based on dominance or partnership or should it be a persons choice.
Is one choice morally better than the other?
In a dominate style relationship, does it matter which gender is the dominate party?
If a person prefers to be the subordinate in a dominate style relationship, is it right to demand that they change to a partnership style relationship?

Only after you consider the answers to these questions, (and probably others), can you then move to what the questions mean within a culture or society.

I'm curious, did everyone miss this post or do you think these questions are not relevant to the discussion?

 

[Enlighten]

I'm curious, did everyone miss this post or do you think these questions are not relevant to the discussion?

I must admit, I did miss these so let me provide answer as I think they are relevant:

Should there be a dominate party in a relationship? I think each party within a relationship will be more dominant in different areas, for example I am more dominant when it comes to family (outwith our relationship), husband is more dominant when it comes to money (he has better control). It's an agreed thing but works. However I wouldn't call it dominant as such just more experienced and better at handling.
Should a relationship be a partnership with equal standing? Yes both should be equal and respected.
Should all relationships be based on dominance or partnership or should it be a persons choice. Partnership
Is one choice morally better than the other? Not for me to decide, but I know my preference which is mutual between my husband and me. I don't like the sound of subordinate though, and "love-slap", see this as abuse of position.
In a dominate style relationship, does it matter which gender is the dominate party? No if it were the female in the situation provided I would respond the same.
If a person prefers to be the subordinate in a dominate style relationship, is it right to demand that they change to a partnership style relationship? Would they truely prefer this or is it because it is the "norm" in their society or religion?