Muslims: Keeping the wife "in line"

[waitasec]

I'm asking if you think your view should be forced on others or should they be allowed to discipline their child in their own way?

like i said, i will voice my opinion if it happens to come up in conversation

i cannot force my view on others, all i can do is voice my opinion.

How do you feel about parents who use physical discipline on their children

really?
to clarify, i don't think it's the best option.

and how should they be treated by society?

good question...

anger management courses should be offered, or some sort of parenting class ... provided by child services perhaps

 

[turk179]

Hey KT, maybe if you're ever in my area we can go grab a couple beers together and hang out and chat. My husband will gladly stay home with the kids so I could go hang out with a friend.

And when you get home I will give you the "slap of love".......right on the tushy

 

[Godobeyer]

So is looking at others, should I gouge out my wife's eyes so she doesn't cheat on me? What about a leash that way she can't leave my sight?

if cheat me , for me , one slap then divoce is good solution .

What is wrong with talking to other men? Do you think the women of the Prophet's time didn't do that? Do you think Khadija, a successful and wealthy businesswomen, didn't interact with men on a day to day basis? Would you dare accuse her chastity?

I told them the conditions of talking to forgien woman

I don't want to argue this my brother, what I want to know is why you are so eager to beat your wife?

I am not eager to beat my wife , we talking about the insubordanite wife , how Allah give solution to resoudre this problem .

Do you speak fusha?

arabic and french ..and you see my EN

Have you read and reflected on these hadith

of course , brother .

My question is my dear brother, why you would dare to hit your wife when you see how big of a deal it is? Why would you have the audacity and boldness to hit your wife because she talked to a man because she might in the future be tempted to fornicate? Is she your dog? Your plaything? Or do you not trust your wife to respect the Shari'ah and respect you and love and fear Allah what is your reason that you slander the taqwa and iman that she has?

I agree with you , but again we are talking about insubordinate wife (but they try to make looks like to all wifes )

Do you know that many many scholars don't think it is permissible to beat your wife? You have, since I posted above read the hadith. What do you think is the safest and wisest option in regards to this and what do you think is the kindest one that will allow you to be a better husband and have a fruitful marriage?

for beat the insubordinate wife ? no one against that , and if you find one that mean he is wrong ? because there is a verse in Quran very clear , i am not shame about that , it's an option to resolve mariage problem .

 

[Draka]

innocent chat is forbiden because .it's first step to haraam .
the small sin take to big one , as we call here , smile then talk then then date then kiss then sex. , then son from another man (not her husband )
and you excuse that by drunk or innocent or civilization or freedom and "trust ", cheat him as he did " revenge "

Is a Muslim man subsequently punished for daring to speak to a woman? Is a married Muslim man punished for speaking to a single woman? What about a single man talking to a married woman. Is he guilty of haraam as well and is he to be punished for it? If so, how? If not, why not?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I object to beating your wife. I do think there are a few universal rights and wrongs, and this is one of them.

But how do you define beating your wife? Some people define it as any physical blow, others as only extreme violence and a slap is not a beating. Similar to the way some consider any physical blow to a child as abuse and others are fine with a spanking. The idea that you can not discipline your wife is a very recent thing in our culture. While I think its a fine idea and one to spread, its a bit self righteous to expect everyone to just jump on the band wagon because we said so.

 

[Godobeyer]

Definitely a cultural thing. Over here some men would find the hijab more attractive because of the secrecy. How about men wearing hijab to hide his beauty?

you need to study the islamic wear condition for man and woman .
Bismallah plz tell her how the man and woman wear "limite "

 

[Godobeyer]

Is a Muslim man subsequently punished for daring to speak to a woman? Is a married Muslim man punished for speaking to a single woman? What about a single man talking to a married woman. Is he guilty of haraam as well and is he to be punished for it? If so, how? If not, why not?

there are conditions to talk forgien woman in Islam .
single man talking to married woman in public area or private area , for what talking ? ...etc
edited and what she/he wear ?

 

[Vinayaka]

But how do you define beating your wife? Some people define it as any physical blow, others as only extreme violence and a slap is not a beating. Similar to the way some consider any physical blow to a child as abuse and others are fine with a spanking. The idea that you can not discipline your wife is a very recent thing in our culture. While I think its a fine idea and one to spread, its a bit self righteous to expect everyone to just jump on the band wagon because we said so.

I don't think anyone (certainly not me) is expecting anyone to jump on the bandwagon. We're just hoping for the slightest bit of social change. Certainly emotional or neglect can be even worse than physical stuff. You are correct in hat definitions remain culturally entwined.

 

[Draka]

there are conditions to talk forgien woman in Islam .
single man talking to married woman in public area or private area , for what talking ? ...etc

What are the answers to my questions? Are there repercussions against a man who speaks to a woman? If a woman and a man are speaking nice and friendly and she is to be punished for it, what of his punishment?

 

[Vinayaka]

you need to study the islamic wear condition for man and woman .

No need to explain. I understand.

 

[Songbird]

But how do you define beating your wife? Some people define it as any physical blow, others as only extreme violence and a slap is not a beating. Similar to the way some consider any physical blow to a child as abuse and others are fine with a spanking. The idea that you can not discipline your wife is a very recent thing in our culture. While I think its a fine idea and one to spread, its a bit self righteous to expect everyone to just jump on the band wagon because we said so.

I don't think it's self-righteous. I think it's a needed wake-up. The idea of equality is largely recent, too, with most of humanity involving cruelty and oppression. I think what you're getting at is to say there are cultural differences, and we shouldn't expect other cultures to look like ours. But this is an internet discussion, not a means of forcing anyone to jump on a bandwagon.

And for what it's worth, a slap rarely stays a slap. In cultures where slapping is acceptable, it leads to more violent abuse.

 

[Bismillah]

if cheat me , for me , one slap then divoce is good solution .

You were not talking about cheating, you were talking about a women speaking with a man. This is not cheating my Allah protect you and me from accusing a chaste women of cheating based on this.

And even if she is cheating you cannot slap her. You can only slap her if she is stubborn in her cheating. If she apologizes then you cannot slap her.

I told them the conditions of talking to forgien woman

Who are you to set limits on our sisters that Allah, the Prophet, and our scholars don't set? I ask again did not the women of the Prophet's time and did not the mother of the believers talk to men?

Was Khadija not a succesful business women?

Did Aisha not ride into battle leading the Sahaba?

Do you think both women closed their eyes and shut their mouths? Where do you think so many hadith come from? They come from Aisha one of the most important scholars of Islamic history the women men flocked to learn from.

of course , brother .

So you know what this means in context of an-nisa? نُشُوز

I agree with you , but again we are talking about insubordinate wife (but they try to make looks like to all wifes )

You are talking about a wife who is speaking with a man. If she wishes to speak with a man still you will beat her?

for beat the insubordinate wife ? no one against that , and if you find one that mean he is wrong ? because there is a verse in Quran very clear , i am not shame about that , it's an option to resolve mariage problem .

There are many scholars against that and many more saying that it is with a miswaak. How hard will you beat your wife with a miswaak?

 

[not nom]

there are conditions to talk forgien woman in Islam .
single man talking to married woman in public area or private area , for what talking ? ...etc

why not?

you're talking to foreigners, a lot of them male or married women, right now. what for?

are you seriously asking why people would want to talk and be friendly? and why does it make you feel threatened? have you ever even tried laughing and being friendly yourself, or is that just something those evil foreigners do?

 

[Godobeyer]

What are the answers to my questions? Are there repercussions against a man who speaks to a woman? If a woman and a man are speaking nice and friendly and she is to be punished for it, what of his punishment?

i told you in conditions , first telll me the condition of that "friendly and nice speaking ":
1-the contian of that discussion"serieusly" or joking with smiles or talking in everything even sex ?
2- in public area alone , and with one member of her family ,her husband or her son or father "relate family" ....etc in private area alone ?
3-what she/he wear , she/he wear sexy clothes or normal .?

 

[not nom]

I have to say though, I notice that even in berlin. turkish/muslim women more or less live in a separate world, or behave differently when certain brothers are around etc. and mind you, I'm not talking about flirting, I'm talking about being friendly... some people can't do that, so they're controlling.

it's pitiful, it's backwards, and that's all.. and if people don't get told off for it, they get wrong ideas. consider it a "love slap" or something, and get the **** out of the stone age already.

 

[beenie]

Bismillah, I truly admire you for staying on topic and explaining this all so well.

One thing everyone has to remember IS the cultural element as well. From an ORTHODOX Islamic perspective, men and women generally do not intermingle SOCIALLY. They do on an as-needed basis, as described by Bismillah above. That's not to say that social intermingling doesn't happen, but definitely not to the extent WE are used to.

In the cultures we're talking about here, honor and reputation of the women are particularly important; a woman "chatting it up" with a strange man CASUALLY will be seen IN THAT CULTURE the same as a woman flirting in our minds. Husbands will get jealous. Again, in THAT culture, they see this "slapping" as putting her back in her senses. Wrong in most peoples' eyes, but acceptable to them.

When it comes to reputation, our culture isn't too far advanced...promiscuous women are deemed as "sluts", men are "studs".

Still, no matter the culture, no matter the amount of jealousy, slapping, beating, "correcting", etc. is unnecessary.

The counter argument (why shouldn't a woman slap a man if HE'S chatting with another woman) doesn't apply here because, to be honest, there are no limitations placed on women in the Qur'an for hitting the men. I don't condone either, to be honest....but that's a whole other story.

 

[not nom]

i told you in conditions , first telll me the condition of that "friendly and nice speaking ":
1-the contian of that discussion"serieusly" or joking with smiles or talking in everything even sex ?
2- in public area alone , and with one member of her family ,her husband or her son or father "relate family" ....etc in private area alone ?
3-what she/he wear , she/he wear sexy clothes or normal .?

none of that matters, intent matters.

if she is faithful, she can talk about her clitoris while naked for all I care. actually, that'd be impressive. if she's not a toy, stupid men can "get wrong ideas" all day, because *she* is not going along with that, do you see?

if she's not faithful, she'll find a way to cheat, so just walk away.

if she's a toy of course, and you are afraid that talking to other men will make her cheat on you, then of course it would make sense to you to treat her like a toy, like a lowly animal, and give her "love slaps".

and if you beat her, you already lost. she is only sticking with you because she can't find (or be found by) someone better.

 

[Draka]

i told you in conditions , first telll me the condition of that "friendly and nice speaking ":
1-the contian of that discussion"serieusly" or joking with smiles or talking in everything even sex ?
2- in public area alone , and with one member of her family ,her husband or her son or father "relate family" ....etc in private area alone ?
3-what she/he wear , she/he wear sexy clothes or normal .?

Does it really matter? It didn't seem to matter when you said that if your wife were talking to another man you would slap her. You didn't give any set up or stipulations when you said that. Imagine your own set up in your mind of your imaginary wife speaking to a man. What should happen to that man?

If you really need an example...here. This is a Muslim man and a Muslim woman talking at a college. Should she be punished if she is married? Should he?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't think it's self-righteous. I think it's a needed wake-up. The idea of equality is largely recent, too, with most of humanity involving cruelty and oppression. I think what you're getting at is to say there are cultural differences, and we shouldn't expect other cultures to look like ours. But this is an internet discussion, not a means of forcing anyone to jump on a bandwagon.

And for what it's worth, a slap rarely stays a slap. In cultures where slapping is acceptable, it leads to more violent abuse.

Self-Righteousness is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is self-righteous to expect the world to see what we have done and just say, "Hey, now that I see what you're doing it makes so much sense." I'm not saying we shouldn't expect other cultures to look like ours, I'm saying we can't expect other cultures to fall in line behind us just because we believe they should.

Yes, this is an internet disccussion site and maybe I'm expecting too much but I've come to see RF as a more intellectual crowd and able to learn and teach instead of just bandy words about.

 

[Godobeyer]

You were not talking about cheating, you were talking about a women speaking with a man. This is not cheating my Allah protect you and me from accusing a chaste women of cheating based on this.

we talking about cheating and about a weman speaking with a man

And even if she is cheating you cannot slap her. You can only slap her if she is stubborn in her cheating. If she apologizes then you cannot slap her.Who are you to set limits on our sisters that Allah, the Prophet, and our scholars don't set? I ask again did not the women of the Prophet's time and did not the mother of the believers talk to men?

they wives talking to men ,in that condition that we talking about .

Was Khadija not a succesful business women?

Did Aisha not ride into battle leading the Sahaba?

yes they do .
again they respect the conditions

Do you think both women closed their eyes and shut their mouths? Where do you think so many hadith come from? They come from Aisha one of the most important scholars of Islamic history the women men flocked to learn from.

yes she did in respect of conditions .

So you know what this means in context of an-nisa? نُشُوز

mean: insubordinate .

You are talking about a wife who is speaking with a man. If she wishes to speak with a man still you will beat her?

There are many scholars against that and many more saying that it is with a miswaak. How hard will you beat your wife with a miswaak?

yeah ,there were scholares confirms that beat the insubordinate woman is by miswaak , accuatly I did not mesure the beat , and they don't ask what is the strengh of that beat ?!!!!
accuatly it's weak beat that don't harm and don't make marks in the body , i explained that , but they avoid it , they just choose/pick the expersions/reply that they convient their "hate to islam "