Muslims leaving Islam for more reasoned beliefs/non-beliefs

[England my lionheart]

Tumbleweed, Masha' Allah....welcome to Islam, brother.


Actually we have a special thread for RF converts to Islam; http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-fullyveiled-muslimah-mujahid.html#post683814

LOL there must be a queue to get into that tread

 

[tumbleweed41]

What???!!!!!!!!!! Have you converted to Islam? Few minutes and you'll find a thread about you .

Tumbleweed, Masha' Allah....welcome to Islam, brother.

:run:

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't really care for what you said, it is your opinion and I've no problem with it....Just to clarify something to you when you want to hear "Islam means peace" think of our great and merciful prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him, as none of Muslims represent Islam except prophet Muhammad PBUH

I think I understand what you mean, but there is still a practical need to deal with the world as it presents itself.

Muslims may claim not to represent Islam (AFAIK they consistently do so, in fact), but they are still attempting to live in accordance to it to the best of their capacities.

It is only fair to recognize that, even if it is not technically correct to call the result "Islam". By the way, is there an accepted, widely used word or expression to describe the communities of Muslims and/or their religious practice and beliefs?

 

[England my lionheart]

This is from a book "why we left Islam:former Muslims speak out" i haven't readthe Book but one quote stood out ;"People who have not lived in Dar Al-Islam cannot and will not understand the level of indoctrination Muslims undergo for their entire lives…If you’ve never used your mind but rather simply lived under the culture of submission (“Islam” means “submission"), your ability to think withers." - Basharee

Although i'm not a former Muslim i can see why this person feels this way

 

[Bismillah]

Although i'm not a former Muslim i can see why this person feels this way

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

 

[LuisDantas]

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

By extrapolating from similar environments that we have seen personally, perhaps.

It is not that much of a leap, really. We have no reason to doubt the many testimonials from Muslims that one finds along time, and many Christian communities are fairly similar in this respect anyway.

 

[England my lionheart]

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

I didn't claim anything but my understanding of Islam is it is the A-Z of a Muslims life where anything from dancing with the opposite sex to doing your ablutions is already decided for you.

 

[Autodidact]

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

by talking to Muslims. How old were you when you learned that Allah is God and Muhammed His prophet?

 

[AuroraWillow]

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

Because a number of people who converted from Christianity have had or know people who have had similar experiences, so they can relate.

 

[dust1n]

This is true. Medieval Europe, unlike Islam, went through the Enlightenment. If Islam goes through an Enlightenment and survives, it may one day thrive again.

Exactly. Sad, no?

I think it is a little more complicated than that.

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atatürk's Reforms (Turkish: Atatürk Devrimleri) were a series of political, legal, cultural, social and economic reforms that were designed to modernize the new Republic of Turkey into a democratic and secular nation-state. They were implemented under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in accordance with Kemalist ideology.
The reform movement began with the modernization of the constitution, including enacting the new Constitution of 1924, and the adaptation of European laws and jurisprudence to the needs of the new republic. This was followed by a thorough secularization and modernization of the administration, with particular focus on the education system. The development of industry was promoted by strategies such as import substitution and the founding of state enterprises and state banks[1]. Central to these reforms were the belief that Turkish society would have to Westernize itself both politically and culturally in order to modernize.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atatürk's_reforms

 

[dust1n]

Sister let's be realistic, the person who leaves Islam and fights it that way will not listen to you.....Take for example that so called Wafaa Sultan after so many dialogues with her in a T.V show she insults Isam and Muslims..... so don't waste your time with such mentalities....But there are poor Muslims in Africa leaves Islam to christianity for a meal or something, those are the people which need our concern, and our scholars and charity institutions should reach and educate them about Islam.

Yes, the poor and disenfranchised are the easiest to convert, especially when they do not know how to read, like 90% of suicide bombers.

 

[Luminous]

I would hardly call Islam defeated.

Islam is about as defeated as Christianity was in the middle ages...with the muslims and mongols gaining ground across Europe...and the Christians killing eachother in higher numbers than any invader.

 

[England my lionheart]

I can't and I don't see how you can claim to do so as well? If you have not even had something close to a Muslim upbringing then how can you claim that Muslims are indoctrinated on a massive scale?

;"People who have not lived in Dar Al-Islam cannot and will not understand the level of indoctrination Muslims undergo for their entire lives…If you’ve never used your mind but rather simply lived under the culture of submission (“Islam” means “submission"), your ability to think withers." - Basharee

When you see threads such as "Mountains as Pegs" or "science in the Qur'an" or "Muhammed in the Bible" these are a good example of the part in red,this could also apply to any Abrahmic faith IMO.

 

[Autodidact]

I think it is a little more complicated than that.

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atatürk's Reforms (Turkish: Atatürk Devrimleri) were a series of political, legal, cultural, social and economic reforms that were designed to modernize the new Republic of Turkey into a democratic and secular nation-state. They were implemented under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in accordance with Kemalist ideology.
The reform movement began with the modernization of the constitution, including enacting the new Constitution of 1924, and the adaptation of European laws and jurisprudence to the needs of the new republic. This was followed by a thorough secularization and modernization of the administration, with particular focus on the education system. The development of industry was promoted by strategies such as import substitution and the founding of state enterprises and state banks[1]. Central to these reforms were the belief that Turkish society would have to Westernize itself both politically and culturally in order to modernize.[2]


Atatürk's Reforms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interestingly, today Turkey is one of the most prosperous, and secular, Muslim countries. Coincidence?

 

[Meow Mix]

it is a sad state of affairs right now.
Muslims around the world are not following the creed as it is designed to be followed. they refuse to modernize and adapt to modernity. i am going to be bashed by other Muslims for saying this, but it's the truth. i see it every day; people judging others on outward appearances...no one is "good enough"...they're cheating their own people (and these are who we are to befriend)...they're stealing, lying, manipulating Shariah law to suit their political and dominating purposes...

it's a disaster right now. NOT the religion, its people. i used to say that you don't judge a religion by its people, but that's an insider looking out. as an outsider, what other example to they have?

if you don't know good, honest, humble, loving, tolerant Muslims (they ARE out there, in the MILLIONS, by the way)...and what you DO see is shown on CNN, FOX, etc., and if what you DO see is extremism eating at the core of Islam, then why on earth would anyone take Islam seriously?

for G-d's sake, we have fatwas in Saudi telling us we can't take flowers to the sick, and that we can't be "the same kind of friends" with non-Muslims as we can be with Muslims...we have religious police (albeit a small minority) hitting women for not covering "properly" and men for not having "a proper Shar'i beard. did Allah ordain this? NO. did our Prophet ordain the religious police to do these acts? NO. where did this nonsense come from? what has happened to us as a practicing people? why are we so focused on what others do and NOT on ourselves and setting a good example?

what do we expect non-Muslims to find appealing about our religion when they see misogyny, hatred for everyone outside of Islam, hatred for many WITHIN Islam, etc.? our religion does not teach these things, yet it's the most prevalent problem out there.

it's time for Muslims around the world to WAKE UP and realize that the rest of the world won't be bullied into accepting Islam as a respectable religion, let along THE religion...if we don't accept modernity (within certain boundaries as all religions have and need boundaries)...and adapt accordingly.

/rant

I tried to frubal you but apparently I've frubaled you too much too recently

 

[Ordeet]

I would hardly call Islam defeated.

Trust me. it will be.

Islam will be eradicated in the very near future.

 

[AuroraWillow]

Out of curiosity, how does one defeat a religion?

 

[beenie]

I tried to frubal you but apparently I've frubaled you too much too recently

i've had that happen too. thanks for trying.

 

[dust1n]

Interestingly, today Turkey is one of the most prosperous, and secular, Muslim countries. Coincidence?

Nope.

 

[Bismillah]

Trust me. it will be.

Islam will be eradicated in the very near future.

I'm sure Afghanistan and Iraq are perfect examples of this.

This is true. Medieval Europe, unlike Islam, went through the Enlightenment. If Islam goes through an Enlightenment and survives, it may one day thrive again.

No, this is completely wrong. I referenced Europe because it clearly fell under the same definition of "defeated" as the Middle East, for example, does. Clearly it is arrogant and presumptuous to predict who is "defeated" as there are a host of variables that can't even be considered. Such arbitrary statements just reveal one's idiocy.

As for enlightenment. Europe reached rock bottom when the Church was the strongest. The Middle East reached its peak when Islam was strongest. As of now I believe there is a current struggle within Islam and once this struggle is overcome the Ummah will stop depraving itself and overthrow its corrupt leadership.