Oh, that. I will guess that most Muslims will be a puzzled that you describe that as a defeat of Islam. It may look more like evidence that Islam does not (yet?) exist as a State-level political movement.
Personally, I observe that millions of people dying out of inner conflicts within Islamic lands, and from foreign conquerers, poverty strike regions, lack of progress, lack of significant political influence etc. as defeat. when your lands are conquered, when you are consumed by inner conflicts with astronomical figures of casualties, when your people live in poverty, you are defeated, if you all you got is 'hope', you are defeated.
An aside. I find myself surprised by how often people talk about Islam as an obstacle to modernization. I don't quite see why that would be important, or even necessarily desirable. Addressing concerns such as proper living conditions, sure. But that has little to do with modernization proper. People can lead joyous, fulfilling lives without necessarily being part of a modern society.
Lack of modernity means lack of influence on the world stage. leading a 'joyous' lives is not as important as working to make acts which will echo in eternity. the 'winners' as it were, are those at the forefront of science, medicine, military edge etc.
While I do strongly disagree with the misgivings of many Muslims about the "evils" of such "modern" concepts as atheism, secularism and just plain not putting Allah above all else, living in Brazil - a country of profound and gross social differences - allows me to realize that modernization isn't always a good thing, or even a tolerable one. It really depends on the price to be paid and who pays for it.
Modernization is a terrible thing when the people are incapable to adapt to it.
and yes I agree, there is always a price to pay.
No argument there, except perhaps that this is not all that different from many other troubled movements.
This thread is about Islam, isnt it?
Maybe you're looking a bit too much at the big picture here. Oil is relevant, sure, but you shouldn't disconsider the faith, hope and dedication of the Muslims themselves. Islam provides them a sense of union and purpose if nothing else, one that can't be rivaled by that provided by the likes of national and economic pride. And as we all have learned time and again, a few Muslims can be very sore losers indeed.
I disagree, people have done amazing feats because of their sense of national or economical pride, and yes I do try to do my best to look at the bigger picture, and I certainly have no issues with people who are happy in their tradition and faith, but we are talking about the 'serious' stuff here, politics, science, progress, social stability, and the ability to adopt your religion to reality.
Ultimately - and I speak as someone who would very much prefer a world without the religion of Islam - the only true way of defeating Islam would be by convincing Muslims that they don't need it. Attempting to fix the countries while disregarding the hearts, minds and social realities of the people is what created much of the current trouble.
I disagree, I may harshly criticize Islam here, but I will also be willing to go to great lengths in order to preserve it. my family has lived among Muslims for centuries, the land I live in has a long Islamic tradition, I read the Qur'an cover to cover in multiple languages, I study Islam academically and in field work, my favorite poetry is Sufi poetry, which admittedly is well out of the sphere of traditional Islam in many ways.
like I said, Islam will probably exist forever, but as someone who has experienced Islam all his life, and studies it, I am also well aware of the endless limitations the Islamic lands around me experience. and to sweep it around the rug when we discuss it would be counter productive to all sides of the debate.
