Muslims the least educated in the world?

[outhouse]

From your wiki link you quote mined form. And it looks very dishonest on your part.

A number of erroneous views have been stated regarding the council's role in establishing the biblical canon. In fact, there is no record of any discussion of the biblical canon at the council at all

 

[FearGod]

If you wish to glibly brush off the disparity between men and women in Saudi Arabia (and the Moslem world in general) as being a matter of mere cultural, rather than religious, influence then fine. But by applying the briefest of critiques to Saudi culture we quickly come to realise the glaring anomaly in such a point of view because it fails to explain how, in Saudi Arabia of all places, Islam can have had little or no real influence on its culture. See - it is plain to anyone who has been to this place and understands it history that Islam is intimately involved in its society, its history and has been the predominant factor in shaping its culture.

If it isn't due to culture, then why do you think a Muslim in Syria isn't the same as a Muslim in Saudi Arabia and a Muslim in Turkey.

The patriarchal nature of Saudi culture is a direct result of the paternalistic ethos of Islam itself, which deems men to have been assigned eternal guardianship over the female. Thus, when looked at in this light helps us to better understand why we see such dominant masculine stewardship over females in so much of their lives.

All Muslim countries were under the Islamic rule for hundreds of years, Saudi Arabia isn't an exception.

But hey – it doesn’t actually say women can’t drive in the Koran so therefore saying women can’t drive is inherently Islamic right?. Well, sorry but I do not accept this – I can point out that it also doesn’t say that you should pray 5 times a day in the Koran either but this is an accepted Islamic precept is it not? Wait a minute – this 5 times a day business came from the Hadith did it not? Well in the Hadith we are told women are ‘deficient in mind’ and so if we take this fact into account and consider it in conjunction with the dominant male role clearly mandated in the Koran then I think we can quite easily propose the idea that the direction of the females life, which is so strictly governed in Saudi Arabia, has come about by the influence of the faith. We know this is true because we see patriarchy throughout all cultures overshadowed by Islam

Why ?
Do you know a hadith that says women shouldn't drive and should travel only with a male.

I don't trust all the hadith to be correct, but regarding that women have less brain than men is a scientific fact.

Men have bigger brains than women, research reveals - Science - News - The Independent

It is quite astounding that Moslems like you still try and tease out any responsibility of Islam from all the problems with Moslem majority societies by using arguments based on technicalities to show Islam has limited or no influence on culture. This idea should be patently ridiculous to anyone who has travelled to a Moslem majority country or lived in one – where it dawns on ones self quite quickly just how much Islam permeates through the societies of these lands in a way I have never seen any religion do. Your ignorance, your bias and your duplicity when arguing about your faith is astounding and you ignore the fact that Islam’s doctrine clearly advocates its dominant role in society – which is what we see.

No, i ain't biased and you don't know better than me about the Islamic countries.

Muslims in Malaysia are the same as Iran, the same as in Turkey, the same as in Egypt, but there are differences due to culture and doctrine.

For example FGM is widespread in Egypt that some girls died due to ignorance and religion is Acquitted from such acts.

And just to clear up a few things you also said:

The fact that you say divorce isn’t a good thing does not give you or anyone else the right to make it incredibly hard for a woman (but incredibly easy for a man) to leave her husband if she so wishes.

Women can ask for separation from men easily but men can't divorce women without losing money according to the contract between them.

I'm not an expert in marriage laws, you can search for such laws which isn't that simple to be discussed here.

I also find it despicable that you have no problem with women having to swim and bathe in women in women only pools.

And i find it despicable that you like to see women in bikini.

[youtube]txDjn5HrC3w[/youtube]
8th best ever Ad on YouTube: Lynx - Man chased by billions of bikinis - YouTube

Worse evidence still of your support for female apartheid is that you argue in favour of the mandatory depersonalisation of women in Saudi Arabia because "many women feel comfortable with it". Oh yeah? Well how about the rights of women that don’t – and we can be sure many don’t. Without needing any evidence to support my hypothesis I can confidently put forward the argument that the majority of women in any society would prefer to be free to dress how they want and not how they are told – that you seem to not agree is shameful. I can also be certain that tehmajority would also 'choose' NOT to cover their face. Do you disagree?

What if she wants to wear sexy knickers ?
I guess you may accept your wife to go jogging wearing a sexy knickers or sexy bikini.

You then go onto say that the laws which stop women from playing athletics for their nation is not a problem since no-one wants to watch female sport any. That comment perfectly captures the patriarchy of your faith and of you yourself. Good day.

No, it isn't, but it is the truth, women football games isn't successful.
Prove me wrong

 

[Shad]

Whereas you have all the evidences that the Indians and the Chinese were the real heroes and Muslims only copy it and paste it in Europe.

Can't you realize how silly your attempts to dismiss the great works of Muslims in the field of science during the golden age.

I am talking about one person at this time and the claims surround said person, not everyone as you wish to paint it. You argument is as weak as claiming Daedalus's son Icarus was the first person to fly because of Homer's story says so. You have no counter argument, you only complain and continue with baseless assertions.

where i find these books , "google encycopadia of books " ?

I bold the words , to detect where is the problem .

seems that you intersting to know islam , from anti-islam sites , good luck

Go to a library, Amazon or Google books. Type in the title of the books, if the search allows a double search use the name of the author as well. Here I will do the hard work for you. Freethinkers of Medieval Islam: Ibn Al-Rawandi, Abu Bakr Al-Razi and Their Impact on Islamic Thought (Islamic Philosophy, Theology and Science): Sarah Stroumsa: 9789004113749: Amazon.com: Books Dah tah. This youngling is how searching Amazon works.

My info is from these books not some anti-Islam site. Unlike many here I know how to do some basic research and how to read a book. :yes:. I need no website to make my arguments for me unlike yourself who solely relies on apologetic websites for your arguments. This is obvious as you have no counter argument but to make accusations of me you can not backup. Especially while before I refuted your argument I was the one supporting you and others again Outhouse using WikiIslam. You can not even to be bothers to search these books nor read them. You go straight to accusations and complaining.

Are either of you finished High-school? I do not see these type of rubbish response from adults, just children or adult-children.

 

[Shad]

I don't trust all the hadith to be correct, but regarding that women have less brain than men is a scientific fact.

Men have bigger brains than women, research reveals - Science - News - The Independent

Larger does not mean more intelligent. The Sperm Whale's brain is 18lbs while a humans is 2.9 to 3.3 lbs. Are Sperm Whales more intelligent than a human?

You are one sexist person. It seems like Islam has made you sexist along with your horrible ability to reseach and comprehend anything you research.

 

[outhouse]

but regarding that women have less brain than men is a scientific fact.

the sheer ignorance of this statement Is appalling. It is why you stay on ignore

then people wonder why we view islam stereotypically as backwards primitive and violent.

 

[outhouse]

Are Sperm Whales more intelligent than a human?

How could we measure?

They have language. Our inability to understand others is a universal worldwide problem within our own species let alone others.


Your probably right, but how we know for sure, may not be a bad question.

 

[Shad]

Empathy and demonstrable abilities; problem solving, pattern recognition, learned behavior. Granted this is limited due to communication issues between us and everything else.

 

[FearGod]

Larger does not mean more intelligent. The Sperm Whale's brain is 18lbs while a humans is 2.9 to 3.3 lbs. Are Sperm Whales more intelligent than a human?

You are one sexist person. It seems like Islam has made you sexist along with your horrible ability to reseach and comprehend anything you research.

Did i say women are less intelligent than men ?

 

[Godobeyer]

They believe every word in the book as a general rule.


So now your saying muslims do not believe their own book, it must not be gods word at all if you throw it away and replace it with man made books.

this is evil way to change my meaning .

Don't speak instead of me , I never said muslims don't believe in their own book .

I said some muslims don't follow Quran (they break the rules ) , they become sinners in that case .

 

[FearGod]

the sheer ignorance of this statement Is appalling. It is why you stay on ignore

then people wonder why we view islam stereotypically as backwards primitive and violent.

That because you didn't understand the research, or you found it silly because it agrees with the saying of the prophet that women's brain is smaller than men, he didn't say less intelligent than men, fanaticism makes people look stupid.

 

[1robin]

That because you didn't understand the research, or you found it silly because it agrees with the saying of the prophet that women's brain is smaller than men, he didn't say less intelligent than men, fanaticism makes people look stupid.

What is the prophetic relevance of brain size? Can you supply the surah about brain size? I have never heard of it.

 

[Shad]

Did i say women are less intelligent than men ?

You provided a justification to different treatment of women and men based on brain size. You drew the correlation not I. You are in damage control mode after making yourself look like a sexist fool.

Hadith claim below.

But hey – it doesn’t actually say women can’t drive in the Koran so therefore saying women can’t drive is inherently Islamic right?. Well, sorry but I do not accept this – I can point out that it also doesn’t say that you should pray 5 times a day in the Koran either but this is an accepted Islamic precept is it not? Wait a minute – this 5 times a day business came from the Hadith did it not? Well in the Hadith we are told women are ‘deficient in mind’ and so if we take this fact into account and consider it in conjunction with the dominant male role clearly mandated in the Koran then I think we can quite easily propose the idea that the direction of the females life, which is so strictly governed in Saudi Arabia, has come about by the influence of the faith. We know this is true because we see patriarchy throughout all cultures overshadowed by Islam


Justifcation for Hadith

Why ?
Do you know a hadith that says women shouldn't drive and should travel only with a male.

I don't trust all the hadith to be correct, but regarding that women have less brain than men is a scientific fact.

Men have bigger brains than women, research reveals - Science - News - The Independent

Ergo you in fact did say this. Comprehension.. get some.

 

[Godobeyer]

I am talking about one person at this time and the claims surround said person, not everyone as you wish to paint it. You argument is as weak as claiming Daedalus's son Icarus was the first person to fly because of Homer's story says so. You have no counter argument, you only complain and continue with baseless assertions.

Go to a library, Amazon or Google books. Type in the title of the books, if the search allows a double search use the name of the author as well. Here I will do the hard work for you. Freethinkers of Medieval Islam: Ibn Al-Rawandi, Abu Bakr Al-Razi and Their Impact on Islamic Thought (Islamic Philosophy, Theology and Science): Sarah Stroumsa: 9789004113749: Amazon.com: Books Dah tah. This youngling is how searching Amazon works.








My info is from these books not some anti-Islam site. Unlike many here I know how to do some basic research and how to read a book. :yes:. I need no website to make my arguments for me unlike yourself who solely relies on apologetic websites for your arguments. This is obvious as you have no counter argument but to make accusations of me you can not backup. Especially while before I refuted your argument I was the one supporting you and others again Outhouse using WikiIslam. You can not even to be bothers to search these books nor read them. You go straight to accusations and complaining.

I did not notice that you supporting against outhouse about Wiki Islam , can you mention in which post ?


since this is about Islamic history , i don't trust non-muslims sources said/translation about Islamic scholars or scientists . except IF i verify and back to the original sources the Muslims history books .
did you verified from the original sources ,Islamic history sites ?

Are either of you finished High-school? I do not see these type of rubbish response from adults, just children or adult-children.

lol
you must be kiding .

should i need a degree or certian age to say my opinion about my history scholars and scientist !!!!?

 

[Shad]

I did not notice that you supporting against outhouse about Wiki Islam , can you mention in which post ?

post 98

I read it was made by Christians at some point. Still even it is is or was it is just opinion unless backed by a good source.

No one took the opening to criticize the sources the site used. People just went straight in bias damage control rather than providing an actual argument.

since this is about Islamic history , i don't trust non-muslims sources said/translation about Islamic scholars or scientists . except IF i verify and back to the original sources the Muslims history books .
did you verified from the original sources ,Islamic history sites ?

This is the same bias you are trying to argue against. Outhouse posts a questionable site yet you go even further as to reject anything a non-Muslim says even if the are educated on Islam, it's history and scholarship. If it disagrees with a Muslim source it is wrong. What if the Muslim source itself is wrong? If you automatically accept Muslim sources are true you are just making an assumption and calling it correct.

No I do not use websites for my sources. I use books, published articles, research and studies. As I have previously shown such websites are easy to manipulate to present a false conclusion. People are easy to fool and anonymous websites are great at doing so. Many do not do any fact checking they "Google" and click the first thing they see and copy it. Or like many others they have apologist websites bookmarked and just rely on those. research never goes beyond confirmation bias or sources from the in-group regardless of expertise. Besides I do not use WikiIslam so there is no need for me to validate anything it says. It is Outhouse's sources not mine. It is your position it argues again.

lol
you must be kiding .

should i need a degree or certian age to say my opinion about my history scholars and scientist !!!!?

No but it speaks volumes to your ability to research and understand said research. Proper research using good sources justifies an argument. If you have weak or no sources of justification your argument merely becomes your subjective opinion which can be dismissed as you fail to prove your claims. Considering you are incapable of comprehending some of your own posts I think the question was valid.

 

[FearGod]

You provided a justification to different treatment of women and men based on brain size. You drew the correlation not I. You are in damage control mode after making yourself look like a sexist fool.

Hadith claim below.

But hey – it doesn’t actually say women can’t drive in the Koran so therefore saying women can’t drive is inherently Islamic right?. Well, sorry but I do not accept this – I can point out that it also doesn’t say that you should pray 5 times a day in the Koran either but this is an accepted Islamic precept is it not? Wait a minute – this 5 times a day business came from the Hadith did it not? Well in the Hadith we are told women are ‘deficient in mind’ and so if we take this fact into account and consider it in conjunction with the dominant male role clearly mandated in the Koran then I think we can quite easily propose the idea that the direction of the females life, which is so strictly governed in Saudi Arabia, has come about by the influence of the faith. We know this is true because we see patriarchy throughout all cultures overshadowed by Islam


Justifcation for Hadith

Why ?
Do you know a hadith that says women shouldn't drive and should travel only with a male.

I don't trust all the hadith to be correct, but regarding that women have less brain than men is a scientific fact.

Men have bigger brains than women, research reveals - Science - News - The Independent

Ergo you in fact did say this. Comprehension.. get some.

Did you hear about Autism ?

One of its main symptoms is repetitive behavior.

Should i always repeat so you can understand.

I said the prophet didn't say they are stupid,they are less in brain or mind, like saying women's muscles are less than men, that doesn't mean an insult for women.

 

[outhouse]

If it disagrees with a Muslim source it is wrong.
.

Typical for most muslims

What if the Muslim source itself is wrong?

later in this thread I used a pro muslim site just for this reason.

 

[outhouse]

Besides I do not use WikiIslam so there is no need for me to validate anything it says. It is Outhouse's sources not mine

.

And I refuse to use it again.


It really has changed nothing though, as much of what has been posted reflects reality.

 

[Shad]

Did you hear about Autism ?

One of its main symptoms is repetitive behavior.

Should i always repeat so you can understand.

I said the prophet didn't say they are stupid,they are less in brain or mind, like saying women's muscles are less than men, that doesn't mean an insult for women.

Reading comprehension son. The claim put forward.

Well in the Hadith we are told women are ‘deficient in mind’ and so if we take this fact into account and consider it in conjunction with the dominant male role clearly mandated in the Koran then I think we can quite easily propose the idea that the direction of the females life, which is so strictly governed in Saudi Arabia, has come about by the influence of the faith. We know this is true because we see patriarchy throughout all cultures overshadowed by Islam

Instead of refuting the view you defended it. Deficient in mind is not brain size. Its saying someone is less intelligent. Look up the words "mind" and "brain"... There is a difference....

You repeat yourself since you are unable to provide a counter-argument, understand what you are in fact saying nor are you able to understand what others say to you. It is called argument ad nauseum. You repeat it enough and fool yourself into thinking it is true and except others to be fooled as well. You made a stupid reply and now are in damage control.

 

[icehorse]

To those who actually know the evil of wahhabi ideology, the history of how it came to be, the teachings of it & how it connects specificallywith the establishment of the Saudi family follows with perfect logc. And, to fail to have it in the discussion is to show complete ignorance of what is really going on in.the Middle East.

Can you explain how your Wahhabi theory fits into the Hindu genocide, perpetrated by conquering Muslims, that started about 1000 years ago, lasted for many centuries, and killed an estimated 80 MILLION Hindus?

 

[Shad]

And I refuse to use it again.


It really has changed nothing though, as much of what has been posted reflects reality.

It does not matter if you use it or not. The fact is no one took the opening to question the site's sources. They went straight to bias as an argument rather than doing any work themselves. I have said it before and I will say it again. A number of theists here rely on websites for their arguments. If they have no website to copy they have no actual argument so they default to fallacies and their illogical thinking by habit.