Muslims the least educated in the world?

[Shad]

Can you explain how your Wahhabi theory fits into the Hindu genocide, perpetrated by conquering Muslims, that started about 1000 years ago, lasted for many centuries, and killed an estimated 80 MILLION Hindus?

It doesn't, it is scapegoating. Wahhabism didn't start until the 17th century long after most of the horrible genocides had already occurred.

 

[Godobeyer]

post 98

thanks

No one took the opening to criticize the sources the site used. People just went straight in bias damage control rather than providing an actual argument.

This is the same bias you are trying to argue against. Outhouse posts a questionable site yet you go even further as to reject anything a non-Muslim says even if the are educated on Islam, it's history and scholarship. If it disagrees with a Muslim source it is wrong. What if the Muslim source itself is wrong? If you automatically accept Muslim sources are true you are just making an assumption and calling it correct.

No I do not use websites for my sources. I use books, published articles, research and studies. As I have previously shown such websites are easy to manipulate to present a false conclusion. People are easy to fool and anonymous websites are great at doing so. Many do not do any fact checking they "Google" and click the first thing they see and copy it. Or like many others they have apologist websites bookmarked and just rely on those. research never goes beyond confirmation bias or sources from the in-group regardless of expertise. Besides I do not use WikiIslam so there is no need for me to validate anything it says. It is Outhouse's sources not mine. It is your position it argues again.



No but it speaks volumes to your ability to research and understand said research. Proper research using good sources justifies an argument. If you have weak or no sources of justification your argument merely becomes your subjective opinion which can be dismissed as you fail to prove your claims. Considering you are incapable of comprehending some of your own posts I think the question was valid.

thanks again for avoid anti-Islam sites for searching , i though in your searching used them , excuse me it's my bad .

and excuse me for my English level (it's not my native language ) .

accuatly i could not verify for credibility of your source about Alrazi now , because i have bad Internet connection .

maybe FearGod had verified about your claim about "AL Razi" ,and he go to a result that's it's fake and wrong ?

 

[Shad]

thanks

thanks again for avoid anti-Islam sites for searching , i though in your searching used them , excuse me it's my bad .

and excuse me for my English level (it's not my native language ) .

accuatly i could not verify for credibility of your source about Alrazi now , because i have bad Internet connection .

maybe FearGod had verified about your claim about "AL Razi" ,and he go to a result that's it's fake and wrong ?

I learn years ago most of the websites covering Islam is so far removed from scholarship it's no even funny. I have had people quote me Spencer or Nakir as if either had a clue what they are talking about. Neither is a scholar, both are fools. Their only expertise is fool people which are ignorant of Islam and getting rich. This goes for both non-Muslims and Muslims. It was not until I enrolled in Islamic Studies two years ago did I learn many of these websites are just ignorant people repeating what other ignorant people say. It's a game of Chinese whispers of ignorance.

Your English is fine. Just make sure you read over what you post so the message is clear.

I believe he is using a pro-Islam site which is just the other side of the coin to an anti-Islam site. He never looked at the work about Al-Razi he just copied what some website told him. If one just accepts whatever answer is the first to agree with their views it is just confirmation bias.

For example there is a very common trend with scientific miracle claims in the Quran. Yet if you look around it not just non-Muslim refuting these claims but Muslims as well. A Muslim physicist was asked about these claims yet he poked holes in the arguments especially the ones on physics since the claims lack details and are vague. His name is Hafiz Chuck Connors, he addresses both sides of these type of arguments. He is just like the Muslim professors that teach me about Islam at SFU. They are educated people which can make their own arguments. Arguments which I can accept. If people do not research people like Hafiz are missed leaving only the most ignorant views available.

Here is one such video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlm-V_pAEfw

 

[outhouse]

It does not matter if you use it or not. The fact is no one took the opening to question the site's sources. They went straight to bias as an argument rather than doing any work themselves. I have said it before and I will say it again. A number of theists here rely on websites for their arguments. If they have no website to copy they have no actual argument so they default to fallacies and their illogical thinking by habit.

I viewed the first site and noticed they sources their information.


The pro islam site mirrored the so called bias site on content

 

[Shad]

Which leads to a conflict of interpretation. Merely claiming that a Muslim knows the correct one by being a Muslim is an error. Likewise the other side should validate their interpretation. Like I said above its a game of Chinese whispers based on ignorance and appeals to ignorance.

 

[outhouse]

Which leads to a conflict of interpretation. Merely claiming that a Muslim knows the correct one by being a Muslim is an error. Likewise the other side should validate their interpretation. Like I said above its a game of Chinese whispers based on ignorance and appeals to ignorance.

each site had credible sources with content that did not conflict with each other.


both show a lack of education in muslim communities

 

[outhouse]

Modern secular education

In a 2013 statement, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation noted that many Islamic member nations restrict education opportunities for girls.[41] UNICEF notes that out of 24 nations with less than 60% female primary enrollment rates, 17 were Islamic nations; more than half the adult population is illiterate in several Islamic countries, and the proportion reaches 70% among Muslim women.[42] Other scholars[43][44] claim Islamic nations have the world's highest gender gap in education. The 2012 World Economic Forum annual gender gap study finds the 17 out of 18 worst performing nations, out of a total of 135 nations, are the following members of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation: Algeria, Jordan, Lebanon, (Nepal[45]), Turkey, Oman, Egypt, Iran, Mali, Morocco, Côte d'Ivoire, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Chad, Pakistan and Yemen.[46]


Women in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Well sourced

 

[Godobeyer]

I found this source about my country


Education in Algeria is free and officially compulsory for Algerians up to age 16, but actual enrollment falls far short of 100 percent.[1] Enrollment drops off sharply from primary to secondary school.[1] In fact, only about half the eligible population is enrolled in secondary school, which consists of two three-year cycles beginning at age 12.[1] In addition, Algeria has: 34 Universities, 13 University Centers, 21 National Superior Institute, 8 Preparatory Institutes.[1]
The primary language of school instruction is the Arabic language|Arabic], but Berber-language instruction has been permitted since 2003, in part to ease reliance on foreign teachers but also in response to complaints about Arabization.[1] Due to Algeria's French colonial past, French is the first foreign language taught in all schools and is often the medium of instruction in post-secondary programs as well as private schools. Most educated Algerians are in turn bilingual in both Arabic and French.
As of 2008, Algeria's literacy rate is 69–70 percent, higher than those of Morocco and Egypt but subpar by international standards.[1] The breakdown by gender is 79 percent for males and 61 percent for females.[1] A lag persists for women despite progress since independence in 1962. Education consumes one-quarter of the national budget.[1] Algeria faces a shortage of teachers as a result of the doubling in the number of eligible children and young adults in the last 12 years.[1]

 

[FearGod]

Reading comprehension son. The claim put forward.



Instead of refuting the view you defended it. Deficient in mind is not brain size. Its saying someone is less intelligent. Look up the words "mind" and "brain"... There is a difference....

You repeat yourself since you are unable to provide a counter-argument, understand what you are in fact saying nor are you able to understand what others say to you. It is called argument ad nauseum. You repeat it enough and fool yourself into thinking it is true and except others to be fooled as well. You made a stupid reply and now are in damage control.

I said there is no verse in the quran that prevent women from driving cars and i make it clear to you that women fought in battles with men, then you was stubborn to dismiss my reply due to your fanaticism.

Your reply was stupid as you say that if you only follow the quran then how you can pray, your reply is due to your weakness and pointless argument, then i asked you for one hadith that can be a reason to prevent woman from driving, then your response was more than stupid by mentioning the hadith that women's mind is less than men.

Do you want to say that women aren't allowed to drive because of this hadith ?
What about women working in Saudi Arabia as doctors.

Your argument is childish one, i wonder if you are old enough for a serious argument.



See what the west think of women drivers "few samples"

[youtube]LTKFaBvW6oc[/youtube]
Women cant drive - woman trying to park a car - YouTube
[youtube]mI2a1TTSgpQ[/youtube]
Yes, it's a woman! - YouTube
[youtube]0AqmvpydWh4[/youtube]
Women Driving Best Fail Compilation - Uniformedia 2013 - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

Reading comprehension son. The claim put forward.



Instead of refuting the view you defended it. Deficient in mind is not brain size. Its saying someone is less intelligent. Look up the words "mind" and "brain"... There is a difference....

Yes, the brain is in the head while the mind is in the foot.

 

[stillsong]

Many Muslims convey their religion through an oral tradition. Many other religions have done this to a lesser or greater extent. An oral tradition is very appealing to people who are not book educated.
Extremism is an extreme to which most people do not aspire or achieve. There is extremism in every religion. That does not reflect on the religion, it is a statement that religion can be used by extremists to serve their own interests.
Think of all the Christians you know. They are all different. So many different denominations - so many different beliefs.
If we stop talking about all Muslim or Christian or Jewish people, then we will avoid the trap of grouping all those who are different into a group we construct in our mind that are all the same.

 

[icehorse]

Many Muslims convey their religion through an oral tradition. Many other religions have done this to a lesser or greater extent. An oral tradition is very appealing to people who are not book educated.
Extremism is an extreme to which most people do not aspire or achieve. There is extremism in every religion. That does not reflect on the religion, it is a statement that religion can be used by extremists to serve their own interests.
Think of all the Christians you know. They are all different. So many different denominations - so many different beliefs.
If we stop talking about all Muslim or Christian or Jewish people, then we will avoid the trap of grouping all those who are different into a group we construct in our mind that are all the same.

Agreed to a point. We can say that roughly 1/3 of the world's Muslims do NOT believe that principles like freedom of expression, or equality for women and minorities are more important than Islamic teachings. So, this is not ALL Muslims, but it's still a very large number that disagree with some important, basic, modern values.

 

[stillsong]

Ice horse, certainly there are people that restrict women and minorities. India is a mostly Hindu country and degradation of women is quite pronounced in the traditional rural parts of India. There is something liberating about education that is not present in those that are totally weighed down by traditions that discriminate against women.
There are examples from almost every country where tradition outweighs freedom and equality.

 

[icehorse]

Ice horse, certainly there are people that restrict women and minorities. India is a mostly Hindu country and degradation of women is quite pronounced in the traditional rural parts of India. There is something liberating about education that is not present in those that are totally weighed down by traditions that discriminate against women.
There are examples from almost every country where tradition outweighs freedom and equality.

Don't forget restricting speech and restricting the choice of religion.

Examples from many countries, yes. This thread concerns whether the problem is most pronounced in Muslim cultures. I don't know how Hindu demographics break down, but large, recent polls indicate that at least a third of the world's Muslims hold conservative Muslim views that put Islamic teachings ahead of the sorts of secular values we're mentioning: freedom of expression, equality, from from religion, and so on.

So that's 500 million Muslims, and as you say, hanging on to tradition not only outweighs freedoms, it often limits good, modern education.

 

[outhouse]

If we stop talking about all Muslim .

Then nothing gets fixed, it stays broken.

 

[outhouse]

Agreed to a point. We can say that roughly 1/3 of the world's Muslims .

And we can say that muslims in general are all literalist.


If YEC were the majority here and violent filled with sectarian hatred, we would all be in trouble. Let alone the 1/3 YEC we have.


My point two different cultures with 1/3 each of fanaticism and fundamentalism as just a hypothetical here. Yet one is waging war, the other is not, do you think religion feeds this behavior ?????

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It does not matter if you use it or not. The fact is no one took the opening to question the site's sources. They went straight to bias as an argument rather than doing any work themselves. I have said it before and I will say it again. A number of theists here rely on websites for their arguments. If they have no website to copy they have no actual argument so they default to fallacies and their illogical thinking by habit.

I specifically questioned the source, went to the trouble of translating a Danish newspaper article to prove it had been misrepresented by WikIslam, and posted another aeticle by the same Danish newspaper (again translated) to show the very different perspective said newspaper actually had.

I further made the point that I personally have no issue with wiki references but its on the referencer to check source if they want to maintain credibility.

To outhouse's credit, he was fine with all that. But regardless, not true that 'no one took the opening to question the site's sources.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No, it isn't, but it is the truth, women football games isn't successful.
Prove me wrong

Football is only one sport.
Do you count Serena Williams as unsuccessful?

I am more than happy to disprove your point here if you want to try and hold to it.
Incidentally, why should 'interest' drive whether they're alliwed to play anyway?

I play basketball for fun and fitness, and at this point we get about a dozen people watching us. Should I be prohibited from playing?

 

[icehorse]

And we can say that muslims in general are all literalist.

If YEC were the majority here and violent filled with sectarian hatred, we would all be in trouble. Let alone the 1/3 YEC we have.

My point two different cultures with 1/3 each of fanaticism and fundamentalism as just a hypothetical here. Yet one is waging war, the other is not, do you think religion feeds this behavior ?????

I'm a fan of accurate problem definitions. I don't think all Muslims are literalists. I think maybe 1/3 of them are very conservative, and Islamic conservatism is a big problem.

 

[outhouse]

I don't think all Muslims are literalists. .

Then they could not be muslim.

Muslim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslims consider the Quran to be the verbatim word of God as revealed to the Islamic prophet Muhammad.



While I don't think the number is 100%, every one I have met, and know, and have in the family, follows the sentence above.

Every forum member that claims to be a current muslim follows the above sentence, and not one will denounce that fanaticism