Muslims the least educated in the world?

[beenie]

In my country women are free to wear what they want, the quran advises women to wear a decent cloth and it isn't an order or a must.

Wow, I live in the US and I hear over and over again how the woman must observe "hijab". MUST, not "it's great if you do"... MUST, or women will rot in hell. Some choice. It would be nice if it was truly a choice.

Muslims sure think it is. In Iran there are etiquette police who not only insist a cloth be worn but a cloth be worn to the exact dimensions and in the exact location they suggest. I have seen videos of women who tried desperately to follow whatever directions they were given but just could not satisfy their Nazi like tormentors. After just a minute or tow the cops show up and drag them of to prison. One I saw the women wanted desperately to comply but no effort was enough. They drug her kicking and screaming for blocks across the pavement. If only I had a cruise missile when needed.

This unfortunate abuse happens in more places than we can count.

The same thing with the Pharisees in Jesus time they were doing awful things in the name of religion and Jesus fought them, such as stoning and the Sabbath.

Who cares what they did? Does that make what Muslims are doing any better? "Oh look, they did something awful... so LET'S DO IT TOO!" doesn't work.

Muslims have a HUGE sexualization of women problem; so much so, that many Muslims insist their pre-pubescent girls cover their legs and arms (before their heads) so they don't look sexy for boys and men.

THEY'RE KIDS and they're already being sexualized. It's disgusting.

Muslims need to fix it instead of comparing to Jesus's time.

 

[beenie]

Let me tell you a little story about me. I live in the US, like I said, and I was once a very "conservative" Muslim woman. I prayed 5 times a day, did all the rituals, wore the hijab, abaya... all of it. I realized, though, that I was becoming someone I didn't like. I was becoming judgmental, "holier than thou", and just someone I didn't want to be. I was losing myself to the group I was hanging around with. It was sad. At the time, I had three young daughters, and by the time I had my sixth (and last), I realized that the last thing I wanted is for them to be like me.

I made a decision to take the scarf and abaya off (I had stopped the abaya a few years earlier)... anyway, I told my husband my decision, and I had his support, (not that I needed it, but I wanted it). I took the scarf off and guess what happened?

I lost "friends". A lot of them. They turned their backs on me because of a piece of polyester. I was coerced to put it on with the same "you're going to hell if you don't", and now I was being shunned because I chose to remove my scarf.

I spent a few months seriously depressed over losing these people in my life, but over time I realized that losing those friends was as much a part of re-finding myself as was removing that symbolic piece of clothing. I was never so happy to lose articles of clothing.

It's not a choice to the vast majority of Muslims, and it's pounded down our throats by the millions and millions of Imams and mullahs who clutter minds of young children and adults alike every single day. It's forced by the threat of eternal damnation. I had a choice only because I live in a country where losing a few loser friends is the biggest risk I have to endure. Women are literally killed over this in many Muslim countries. Whether it's due to lack of education or just pure stupidity, it happens. It needs to be addressed, even if it means an Islamic revolution... get out of the 7th century.

Hijab is NOT a choice.

 

[FearGod]

Wow, I live in the US and I hear over and over again how the woman must observe "hijab". MUST, not "it's great if you do"... MUST, or women will rot in hell. Some choice. It would be nice if it was truly a choice.



This unfortunate abuse happens in more places than we can count.



Who cares what they did? Does that make what Muslims are doing any better? "Oh look, they did something awful... so LET'S DO IT TOO!" doesn't work.

Muslims have a HUGE sexualization of women problem; so much so, that many Muslims insist their pre-pubescent girls cover their legs and arms (before their heads) so they don't look sexy for boys and men.

THEY'RE KIDS and they're already being sexualized. It's disgusting.

Muslims need to fix it instead of comparing to Jesus's time.

I'm comparing some Muslim scholars to the pharisees because they are the one causing such problems.

Using force on women to wear a specific dress doesn't make any sense, but advising them doesn't cause any harm and then it is up to them what to choose.

 

[beenie]

I'm comparing some Muslim scholars to the pharisees because they are the one causing such problems.

Using force on women to wear a specific dress doesn't make any sense, but advising them doesn't cause any harm and then it is up to them what to choose.

That would be great if it was actually up to women though, wouldn't it? It should be up to women, but it isn't. They're guilted into it.

"It's up to you if you want to go to hell" is not a choice.

 

[Godobeyer]

Let me tell you a little story about me. I live in the US, like I said, and I was once a very "conservative" Muslim woman. I prayed 5 times a day, did all the rituals, wore the hijab, abaya... all of it. I realized, though, that I was becoming someone I didn't like. I was becoming judgmental, "holier than thou", and just someone I didn't want to be. I was losing myself to the group I was hanging around with. It was sad. At the time, I had three young daughters, and by the time I had my sixth (and last), I realized that the last thing I wanted is for them to be like me.

I made a decision to take the scarf and abaya off (I had stopped the abaya a few years earlier)... anyway, I told my husband my decision, and I had his support, (not that I needed it, but I wanted it). I took the scarf off and guess what happened?

I lost "friends". A lot of them. They turned their backs on me because of a piece of polyester. I was coerced to put it on with the same "you're going to hell if you don't", and now I was being shunned because I chose to remove my scarf.

I spent a few months seriously depressed over losing these people in my life, but over time I realized that losing those friends was as much a part of re-finding myself as was removing that symbolic piece of clothing. I was never so happy to lose articles of clothing.

It's not a choice to the vast majority of Muslims, and it's pounded down our throats by the millions and millions of Imams and mullahs who clutter minds of young children and adults alike every single day. It's forced by the threat of eternal damnation. I had a choice only because I live in a country where losing a few loser friends is the biggest risk I have to endure. Women are literally killed over this in many Muslim countries. Whether it's due to lack of education or just pure stupidity, it happens. It needs to be addressed, even if it means an Islamic revolution... get out of the 7th century.

Hijab is NOT a choice.

Sister , thanks for share ,

my aunts lived in Saudi Arabia ,one of them lived in USA , when they travel to USA or Europe , they remove Hijab , that's up to them .

I think Hijab is required but by not obeligation,it's not line to be a muslim or not , whom blamed you for your decision don't have the keys of Paradise or Hell .

 

[FearGod]

Let me tell you a little story about me. I live in the US, like I said, and I was once a very "conservative" Muslim woman. I prayed 5 times a day, did all the rituals, wore the hijab, abaya... all of it. I realized, though, that I was becoming someone I didn't like. I was becoming judgmental, "holier than thou", and just someone I didn't want to be. I was losing myself to the group I was hanging around with. It was sad. At the time, I had three young daughters, and by the time I had my sixth (and last), I realized that the last thing I wanted is for them to be like me.

I made a decision to take the scarf and abaya off (I had stopped the abaya a few years earlier)... anyway, I told my husband my decision, and I had his support, (not that I needed it, but I wanted it). I took the scarf off and guess what happened?

I lost "friends". A lot of them. They turned their backs on me because of a piece of polyester. I was coerced to put it on with the same "you're going to hell if you don't", and now I was being shunned because I chose to remove my scarf.

I spent a few months seriously depressed over losing these people in my life, but over time I realized that losing those friends was as much a part of re-finding myself as was removing that symbolic piece of clothing. I was never so happy to lose articles of clothing.

It's not a choice to the vast majority of Muslims, and it's pounded down our throats by the millions and millions of Imams and mullahs who clutter minds of young children and adults alike every single day. It's forced by the threat of eternal damnation. I had a choice only because I live in a country where losing a few loser friends is the biggest risk I have to endure. Women are literally killed over this in many Muslim countries. Whether it's due to lack of education or just pure stupidity, it happens. It needs to be addressed, even if it means an Islamic revolution... get out of the 7th century.

Hijab is NOT a choice.

Hijab is kind of freedom as well, i'm with giving the woman the choice and forcing it is absurd.

Friendship shouldn't be related to what we wear, so your friends weren't that good, i lived with my friends in one house, they were praying 5 times a day and i was drinking 5 times a day and having a girlfriend after a while i realized that my life was empty, kind of fake pleasure, i thought i was happy and they weren't.

wearing a cloth whether sexy or not isn't what make woman happy and if it'll make her happy then that is a false feeling because happiness isn't what we wear but with peace of mind.

Now i'm much happier with drinking healthy juices,coffee and tea.

 

[MD]

Let me tell you a little story about me. I live in the US, like I said, and I was once a very "conservative" Muslim woman. I prayed 5 times a day, did all the rituals, wore the hijab, abaya... all of it. I realized, though, that I was becoming someone I didn't like. I was becoming judgmental, "holier than thou", and just someone I didn't want to be. I was losing myself to the group I was hanging around with. It was sad. At the time, I had three young daughters, and by the time I had my sixth (and last), I realized that the last thing I wanted is for them to be like me.

I made a decision to take the scarf and abaya off (I had stopped the abaya a few years earlier)... anyway, I told my husband my decision, and I had his support, (not that I needed it, but I wanted it). I took the scarf off and guess what happened?

I lost "friends". A lot of them. They turned their backs on me because of a piece of polyester. I was coerced to put it on with the same "you're going to hell if you don't", and now I was being shunned because I chose to remove my scarf.

I spent a few months seriously depressed over losing these people in my life, but over time I realized that losing those friends was as much a part of re-finding myself as was removing that symbolic piece of clothing. I was never so happy to lose articles of clothing.

It's not a choice to the vast majority of Muslims, and it's pounded down our throats by the millions and millions of Imams and mullahs who clutter minds of young children and adults alike every single day. It's forced by the threat of eternal damnation. I had a choice only because I live in a country where losing a few loser friends is the biggest risk I have to endure. Women are literally killed over this in many Muslim countries. Whether it's due to lack of education or just pure stupidity, it happens. It needs to be addressed, even if it means an Islamic revolution... get out of the 7th century.

Hijab is NOT a choice.

You are a brave woman and I commend your actions. I lived in an Islamic theocracy for many years as a child, one of my dads friends was threatened to be beaten in public by the religous police because his wife had a little hair showing. The only reason he was spared was because there was luckily a secular police inspector in the area who gave him a ticket and told him to get out of there fast!

I have had family members cut me off for abandoning ridiculous customs in my religion too, ignorant people will exist everywhere.

 

[Shad]

Your explanation is a philosophical one indeed.

The mind isn't the soul as you try to make it, even a child knows that mind is in the brain

Soul does not mean mind. Stop playing word games and changing words as you feel.

Do you think mind exists without brain ? how it works ?

You are the religious one. You are the one that believes in a God without a physical body as it would restrict God. You are the one that believes in souls and that soul go beyond the body.

Who told you that God doesn't have a physical body ? Can you tell us how God looks like ?

If God is physical than God is limited making it not God

Didn't you realize yet how stupid is your answers which are a silly ones and you are presenting them as if a mere facts.

You are distorting facts. Brain size does not imply intelligence which the hadith is actually implying. More word games to get around sexist Islam.

I'm talking about facts whereas you are presenting stupid ideas of your own.

Yes you present facts but taking science out of context to justify treatment of women in Islam due to deficient minds. No where in that link does it say women are less intelligent than men as the Hadith says.

Tell me how many women scientists and inventors compared to men.

Not that many. However there are vastly more in the West and East than there ever have been in Islamic nations.

Compare the number of men to women in your government and keep giving silly excuses as you used to.

https://www.american.edu/spa/wpi/upload/2012-Men-Rule-Report-web.pdf

I am not American..

I'm confused because both of you have the same mind, i mean the same thoughts.

We both think Slam is sexist due to peoples views such as your own.

With facts we can prove the hadith to be wrong, but that is how creation goes, IOW it isn't an insult if Monkeys were created less intelligent than humans, it isn't an insult as well if men were created stronger than women, yes you may feel sad and want all to be equal, so you and the dog to be the same as God's creation, but facts are facts, we have to accept it as it is, you may realize then what is the meaning of submission.

We are not talking about strength we are talking about intelligence. Red herring

 

[Estro Felino]

I think Hijab is required but by not obeligation,it's not line to be a muslim or not , whom blamed you for your decision don't have the keys of Paradise or Hell .

I don't understand why it is required.
Uniforms can be something required....

 

[gnostic]

Let me tell you a little story about me. I live in the US, like I said, and I was once a very "conservative" Muslim woman. I prayed 5 times a day, did all the rituals, wore the hijab, abaya... all of it. I realized, though, that I was becoming someone I didn't like. I was becoming judgmental, "holier than thou", and just someone I didn't want to be. I was losing myself to the group I was hanging around with. It was sad. At the time, I had three young daughters, and by the time I had my sixth (and last), I realized that the last thing I wanted is for them to be like me.

I made a decision to take the scarf and abaya off (I had stopped the abaya a few years earlier)... anyway, I told my husband my decision, and I had his support, (not that I needed it, but I wanted it). I took the scarf off and guess what happened?

I lost "friends". A lot of them. They turned their backs on me because of a piece of polyester. I was coerced to put it on with the same "you're going to hell if you don't", and now I was being shunned because I chose to remove my scarf.

I spent a few months seriously depressed over losing these people in my life, but over time I realized that losing those friends was as much a part of re-finding myself as was removing that symbolic piece of clothing. I was never so happy to lose articles of clothing.

It's not a choice to the vast majority of Muslims, and it's pounded down our throats by the millions and millions of Imams and mullahs who clutter minds of young children and adults alike every single day. It's forced by the threat of eternal damnation. I had a choice only because I live in a country where losing a few loser friends is the biggest risk I have to endure. Women are literally killed over this in many Muslim countries. Whether it's due to lack of education or just pure stupidity, it happens. It needs to be addressed, even if it means an Islamic revolution... get out of the 7th century.

Hijab is NOT a choice.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience, though it is sad that you have to go through such terrible times.

Hearing the hijab or any other coverings of head, should be a personal choice of each INDIVIDUAL Muslim woman, without pressures from spouse, family, friends, community, police , government and from religion.

I am glad to hear that your husband is and was very supportive of your choice, but it is sad that you have to lose overly-devout friends over the hajib. They shouldn't be pressuring you at all.

There lie the problem with some Muslim-thinking over the hajib. I don't know if they realize it or not, but what they are doing is putting pressures on you, when they ostracise you from their circle. The reality is that some families would do the same thing as your friends have done, when a woman or girl go outside what they perceived to be traditional customs, and that is just plain wrong.

And it could be even worse with some other families, because it could lead to what perceive to be a lost of family honour, which could potentially lead to honour killing or other methods of punishments.

 

[Shad]

I think Hijab is required but by not obeligation,it's not line to be a muslim or not , whom blamed you for your decision don't have the keys of Paradise or Hell .

Required means obligated...

Required Synonyms, Required Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

 

[FearGod]

Soul does not mean mind. Stop playing word games and changing words as you feel.

You said that mind is a philosophical concept of self or I.
What is a Soul? - Questions & Answers

You are the religious one. You are the one that believes in a God without a physical body as it would restrict God. You are the one that believes in souls and that soul go beyond the body.

We don't know how God looks like or what he/she/it is .

If God is physical than God is limited making it not God.

How is that ?

You are distorting facts. Brain size does not imply intelligence which the hadith is actually implying. More word games to get around sexist Islam.

Did the hadith say that women are less intelligent, there are words in Arabic to say it than the word "mind", so you have to guess why he didn't just say less intelligent than less in mind ?

Yes you present facts but taking science out of context to justify treatment of women in Islam due to deficient minds. No where in that link does it say women are less intelligent than men as the Hadith says.

Neither the hadith did.

Not that many. However there are vastly more in the West and East than there ever have been in Islamic nations.

Then why women are less than men in inventions and sciences ?

I am not American..

I asked you "in your government", and not in America.

We both think Slam is sexist due to peoples views such as your own.

You are free to think so.

We are not talking about strength we are talking about intelligence. Red herring

Differences do exist, should we deny facts.

 

[Godobeyer]

Required means obligated...

Required Synonyms, Required Antonyms | Thesaurus.com

how about Need mean want ?

it's required to you to go ?
it's same meaning
it's obligated to you to go ?

 

[Shad]

If something is required it is an obligation in the context of religion. Need is again a requirement. For example I need food to live. If I want something like an apple this is a desire not a requirement. I do not need an apple to live, I could eat other forms of food to fill the requirement.

 

[Shad]

You said that mind is a philosophical concept of self or I.
What is a Soul? - Questions & Answers

Useless link. Provide evidence of a soul which is not rooted in religious sophistry or ideology.

We don't know how God looks like or what he/she/it is .

People speculate what God is. I can point out this speculation and question it. Does the Quran not describe Allah? Have you not read it? We can infer by attributes in holy texts in comparison to examples we have in reality.

Did the hadith say that women are less intelligent, there are words in Arabic to say it than the word "mind", so you have to guess why he didn't just say less intelligent than less in mind ?

Again refer to the difference between mind and brain. It is also used to infer women need men due to being deficient in mind. Take a lot at Bukhari 1:6:301 and 2:24:541.

Then why women are less than men in inventions and sciences ?

Due to gender role assignment from cultures and religion. Islam being both as an example.

I asked you "in your government", and not in America.

Women are underrepresented in government. Around 23% I think.

You are free to think so.

Yup

Differences do exist, should we deny facts.

Of course there are. However this does not mean women should be restricted especially based on the unproven assertion that a woman's mind is lesser than a man's.

 

[Harikrish]

People forget the Ottoman Empire flourished under Islam.

The Ottoman Empire was the one of the largest and longest lasting Empires in history. It was an empire inspired and sustained by Islam.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

People forget the Ottoman Empire flourished under Islam.

Hi Harikrish...
I doubt people have forgotten about the Ottoman Empire. But given that you posted a quote, where did it come from? (ie. source)

Welcome to RF, by the way.

 

[gnostic]

how about Need mean want ?

it's required to you to go ?
it's same meaning
it's obligated to you to go ?

Actually "want" and "need" are distinctively different.

The term "want" have to do with "desire". Want is doing what you would LIKE TO DO.

While "need" mean "requirement", "obligation". Need is doing something that you are required to do [need], but does not necessarily mean that you like doing it [want].

Sometimes they (want & need) can be one and the same, but that's not always true.

For instance, you can do something that you "need" to do, but that you really don't "want" to do.

An example of this, I need to cook because I am hungry, but I might not like eating the food I cook, or I just might hate cooking.

Just remember that "want" is doing something you like to do or desire to do.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

People forget the Ottoman Empire flourished under Islam.

I can't say for others but my position about the education in Islamic countries was posted as a counter to the idea that it was purely an Islamic notion that created fanaticism and terrorism. But rather the poor education currently ravaging several Islamic countries is the cause.

Anyone that would state that the Islamic Golden Age was inconsequential would be moronic.

 

[MD]

I can't say for others but my position about the education in Islamic countries was posted as a counter to the idea that it was purely an Islamic notion that created fanaticism and terrorism. But rather the poor education currently ravaging several Islamic countries is the cause.

Anyone that would state that the Islamic Golden Age was inconsequential would be moronic.

That's rubbist, what about the thousands of Western Jihadists in Iraq and Syria massacring innocents??

It's a combination of lack of education and the OIL money of Wahabbist Saudi Arabia in conjunction with the American war machine that has created this monster.