Muslims the least educated in the world?

[Monk Of Reason]

That's rubbist, what about the thousands of Western Jihadists in Iraq and Syria massacring innocents??

It's a combination of lack of education and the OIL money of Wahabbist Saudi Arabia in conjunction with the American war machine that has created this monster.

Did you mean "rubbish"? And in what way was my statement standing in contrast to your own?

 

[MD]

Did you mean "rubbish"? And in what way was my statement standing in contrast to your own?

You said it had to do only with poor education, but that doesn't explain why thousands of well educated Westerners have become jihadists.

 

[Harikrish]

Hi Harikrish...
I doubt people have forgotten about the Ottoman Empire. But given that you posted a quote, where did it come from? (ie. source)

Welcome to RF, by the way.

Sorry I thought that was history we all knew.
I cannot post links yet.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sorry I thought that was history we all knew.
I cannot post links yet.

Well, let's just say I think nothing is ever so simple as having a single cause. But I didn't have a problem with what you said, really. Just that you put it in quotes, which immediately made me wonder where you quoted it from (so I could check for the larger view of the article/whatever).

No biggie, I'd forgotten about the inability to post links with a new account.

 

[Shad]

I can't say for others but my position about the education in Islamic countries was posted as a counter to the idea that it was purely an Islamic notion that created fanaticism and terrorism. But rather the poor education currently ravaging several Islamic countries is the cause.

Anyone that would state that the Islamic Golden Age was inconsequential would be moronic.

I hope you realize that many of the attackers in 9/11 were post-secondary graduates. Many of the leaders in various groups, even outside of Islam, are educated individuals. I believe those that are violent on the level many are talking about are mentally damaged either at birth or due to experiences in life.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You said it had to do only with poor education, but that doesn't explain why thousands of well educated Westerners have become jihadists.

I'll go back and re-read exactly how I worded it. If it was poorly worded then so be it. However to make it clear I feel that poor education is a factor in the widespread power and influence in these regions of certain religious terrorist organizations.

I hope you realize that many of the attackers in 9/11 were post-secondary graduates. Many of the leaders in various groups, even outside of Islam, are educated individuals. I believe those that are violent on the level many are talking about are mentally damaged either at birth or due to experiences in life.

Could be. Usually leaders are very educated and intelligent/charismatic in order to obtain followers. However, by rule of thumb, the followers tend to be far less so.

 

[Shad]

People forget the Ottoman Empire flourished under Islam.

The Ottoman Empire used secular laws from the Byzantium Empire and legals system developed after the fall of the Abbasid dynasty called the Kanun. As the Empire aged the Kanun system become increasingly dominate over that of Islamic law. This led to the Tanzimat reforms based on European systems from law to the military. Those who preferred the Islamic system started several revolts and coups which deteriorated the state in the 1800-1900s, which was already deteriorating during the 1700s. The Ottoman Empire was on of the least Islamic states and become less Islamic over time.

 

[Shad]

Could be. Usually leaders are very educated and intelligent/charismatic in order to obtain followers. However, by rule of thumb, the followers tend to be far less so.

Education, or lack of, is not the end all be all of become a radical. I believe one problem is not general education but selective education. Religious education is often restricted by religious authorities to maintain the hegemony they hold.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Education, or lack of, is not the end all be all of become a radical. I believe one problem is not general education but selective education. Religious education is often restricted by religious authorities to maintain the hegemony they hold.

Selective education is still a lack of education in my opinion. Though I do agree that it is not the end all but a factor.

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't understand why it is required.
Uniforms can be something required....

let me explain

Some thing required is not forcelly obligated

required : something necessery and we had choice .

obeligated : something we don't have a choice , or it's maybe by force .

 

[Harikrish]

The Ottoman Empire used secular laws from the Byzantium Empire and legals system developed after the fall of the Abbasid dynasty called the Kanun. As the Empire aged the Kanun system become increasingly dominate over that of Islamic law. This led to the Tanzimat reforms based on European systems from law to the military. Those who preferred the Islamic system started several revolts and coups which deteriorated the state in the 1800-1900s, which was already deteriorating during the 1700s. The Ottoman Empire was on of the least Islamic states and become less Islamic over time.

Here is the link to the Ottoman Empire and its Islamic influence.

BBC - Religions - Islam: Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)

 

[Godobeyer]

If something is required it is an obligation in the context of religion. Need is again a requirement. For example I need food to live. If I want something like an apple this is a desire not a requirement. I do not need an apple to live, I could eat other forms of food to fill the requirement.

thanks for this exemple :

that's it , the apple is the Hijab , Hijab is required by it's not neccessary to be a Muslim or not .

for exemple the Nuns wearing something like Hijab , is this act made them Muslims ? No, of course .

the Same way if a muslims woman remove Hijab that make her non-Muslim ? No , of course , because there is no single hadith or verse said that .

 

[Godobeyer]

Actually "want" and "need" are distinctively different.

The term "want" have to do with "desire". Want is doing what you would LIKE TO DO.

While "need" mean "requirement", "obligation". Need is doing something that you are required to do [need], but does not necessarily mean that you like doing it [want].

Sometimes they (want & need) can be one and the same, but that's not always true.

For instance, you can do something that you "need" to do, but that you really don't "want" to do.

An example of this, I need to cook because I am hungry, but I might not like eating the food I cook, or I just might hate cooking.

Just remember that "want" is doing something you like to do or desire to do.

take it easy brother

I am not good enough in English , but if i am wrong correct me .

I guess "required" is close to the meaning to " recommended" , more than "obligation" , is i am right ?

 

[outhouse]

how about Need mean want ?

You seriously cannot tell the difference?


Try reading a dictionary and see if definitions match. I know it takes some intellect to actually look for knowledge outside the Koran, but you must try

 

[outhouse]

People forget the Ottoman Empire flourished under Islam.

Yes, until a bad iman ruined the religion which has embarrassed islam ever since, and it has never recovered.

It has been posted already in this thread and talked about ad nauseam.

islam changed for the worse

 

[Shad]

Here is the link to the Ottoman Empire and its Islamic influence.

BBC - Religions - Islam: Ottoman Empire (1301-1922)

Since your articles does not include known history it is worthless. Look up the reform and law I mentioned. Look up the history of the Empire during the 1800s.

 

[Shad]

thanks for this exemple :

that's it , the apple is the Hijab , Hijab is required by it's not neccessary to be a Muslim or not .

for exemple the Nuns wearing something like Hijab , is this act made them Muslims ? No, of course .

the Same way if a muslims woman remove Hijab that make her non-Muslim ? No , of course , because there is no single hadith or verse said that .

I was pointing out if you think it is required then it's an obligation. You are contradicting yourself

 

[Shad]

You seriously cannot tell the difference?


Try reading a dictionary and see if definitions match. I know it takes some intellect to actually look for knowledge outside the Koran, but you must try

English is not their first language so this could be a break down due to a language barrier.

 

[Shad]

take it easy brother

I am not good enough in English , but if i am wrong correct me .

I guess "required" is close to the meaning to " recommended" , more than "obligation" , is i am right ?

No it's not closer to recommended. Required is synonymous with obligation. I would say modesty is required but this does not mean a particular article of clothing is required. Modesty covers more than clothing. It can be speech and conduct as well.

 

[outhouse]

English is not their first language so this could be a break down due to a language barrier.

Same problem with the koran though.

1+1 = what ever the book says that most people agree on, and will kill each other over the different numbers, despite the answer being simply 2 until only one group is left.

That is islam in a nutshell