My first post

[stevecanuck]

@PruePhillip
The propaganda I speak of has painted Muslims as the enemies.

In verse 2:98, Allah says he is the enemy of unbelievers. So, who is painting whom? I didn't know I was your god's enemy for simply not being a believer until I read the Qur'an.

The type of propaganda that has led to the oppression of Muslims all over the world.

In China the Uighurs are being oppressed because they are religious, and therefore a threat to the government. The same thing happened to the Christian Falun Gong. It doesn't matter to the Chinese Communist government what the religion is, only that it is religion.

The mess in the Balkans was indeed religious bigotry. No argument there.

But, where else? Muslims are making everybody's life miserable across the entire Sahel. Not the other way around. Seriously, where are Muslims being oppressed now (other than in China)?

There is no good reason to paint a whole group of people based on the ignorant actions of a the few

No, claiming that the people who actually commit acts of terrorism are the only ones responsible for it is just not true. The world's mujahadin have wide-spread emotional and financial support in the Muslim world. Jihad doesn't happen in a vacuum. It is bought and paid for by Muslims around the world.

 

[stevecanuck]

6 - that one day Islam will own Europe by immigration, demographics, conversion and terror.

We have a ring-side seat to that very thing. First Europe, then the rest of the world. I honestly believe that the world will be entirely ruled by a set of 6th century values in under 200 years. Either that, or there will be one hell of a war to prevent that from happening.

 

[stevecanuck]

Salam

The proper way to understand Quran for most Muslims today, is lost. They are caught in Satanic vision of Quran and can't see beyond what the sorcerers want them to think pertaining to it. They decontextualize verses way out of their position as well.

The locks are not broken by reflection.

Amazing. Allah went to the trouble of lecturing Mohamed for 22 years, but then He let is creation get corrupted.

That's a large degree of weakness of which you accuse your 'all powerful' god. Seriously, do you really not see how absurd that is?

 

[Come2thelight]

Welcome to the RF and enjoy,why do you think that the Middle East got all the prophets even though according to Islam a messenger was sent to all nations,im pretty sure they didn’t.

Hello and thank you for the welcoming

Yes, we hold the notion that messengers were sent to all nations throughout time. Since the inception of humanity, people were called to monotheism. As time went on, people changed and differed and started innovating new teachings.

When we examine a lot of the ancient religions and a lot of indigenous religions we can see that almost all of them have a core monotheistic message. This supports the notion quite sufficiently.

 

[Come2thelight]

so you're saying that believers don't think god is actually REAL, like the sun or their boss at work

I specifically said apparent as the sun and not real as the sun. Of course, believers believe God is real and the highest level of belief we can achieve is conviction.

God is something they pretend is real but can ignore if they don't feel like being productive

We are forgetful and can slip. That's the whole point. Sometimes a person is just lazy, sometimes a person just doesn't want to do something and do something else. So yes everyone is free to do as they please.

Apparently you're claiming that these people are lying and that no one ACTUALLY believes in god, because if they did it would 'void the test' as you say. .

I made no such claim.

 

[Come2thelight]

There's a big difference in believing that someone substituted for Jesus as far as salvation goes or that Jesus himself was actually executed

Why does an all-loving God need to sacrifice an innocent man in order to forgive us? Why does an omnipotent God need blood in exchange for forgiveness?

 

[Come2thelight]

If I understand correctly, seems that Muhammed's son(?) became a situation in dividing the beliefs. So are you saying that it doesn't matter which set of Islamic beliefs a person sticks to in reference to salvation?

Islam is one and our theology is one and our Quran is one. Muslims differ today for various reasons, but what I am saying is that any Muslim who sticks to radical monotheism and fulfills their duties as a Muslim, then they should be fine

 

[Come2thelight]

How long do you think we should give Islamists to make their Islamic Republics desirable places to live?

There are already tons of foreigners that love living in Muslim countries. So I don't know what you are talking about honestly.

 

[Come2thelight]

Would you think some doing these things could have reservations about these things, perhaps thinking that killing/murdering someone they don't know is wrong or questionable but do it anyway, either because of propaganda or pressure?

I'm not sure if I understand your question honestly.

Concerning your comment about the prayers and the sects not allowing one another in. That's false. For starters how would someone even know if they are from a different sect, to begin with since we all pray the same?

In the interest of fairness, there might be a select few mosques that despise other sects and thus aren't welcoming, but who would want to go to a place like that anyway?

There's no room for hate in Islam and we should welcome anyone into our mosques especially if they are coming to worship as we do.

 

[Come2thelight]

Salam alaikom. I hope you're well bro.

However, from a "technical" can do, he can disbelieve like Iblis, but he is been chosen by God because God knows he will never do so.

If God knows he will never disbelieve, then how can he technically disbelieve?

Yet Iblis witnessed the light of Mohammad (s) before, and disbelieved

How do you know that?

He witnesses Angels (a) - the chosen close ones in particular, and yet, disbelieves.

Angels are miraculous to us, while the human being is what boggled Satan's mind. He was already in the realm of angels so there's nothing amazing there for him.

He knows the Lord of Mohammad (S) can destroy him, yet plans to overthrow heaven

He doesn't plan to overthrow heaven in the slightest mate, that's totally false. He knows Allah is omnipotent and doesn't dare. The best he can do is bring as many humans down with him as possible. That's all he is doing. He has zero power compared to Allah. Don't be fooled to think otherwise my brother.

Adam (a) wavered in certainty in God's signs, and doubted the voice of God through the veils. But he quickly repented.

That was bound to happen. Once the human being (Adam) has developed to the point that he can make independent choices, he was ready to go to earth. And he was quickly taught how to repent. That was the whole point of this, so that he could actually feel the remorse and truly repent. This is one of the major lessons in this story. Repentance is the key to our return to Allah (swt).

 

[Come2thelight]

I think this is bad, my recollection is that you have no problem with this. Correct?

I do have a problem with this. We are all human, to begin with. We are all going through the dramas of life. We all want to be content, secure, and serene. We all want to love and to be loved. We all have dreams and aspirations. We all came from a single mother and father and thus are all brothers and sisters. We are together in this and I for one will hug anyone before hurting anyone.

However, there are some that don't see it this way, despite their beliefs. Some have come to the conclusion that another individual doesn't deserve the same rights because of x reason. Some find happiness in seeing the pain of others. Some have focused on themselves despite others. Some will sell others out for the smallest price. Some will kill for even less. Some can't see the good in anything due to the turmoil life has brought them. But everyone can change, and it comes through love, empathy, and compassion.

So yes, I do have a problem with this us vs them nonsense. The Quran might have made you think this because you are isolating a few ayahs and ignoring the overall message of Islam.

 

[England my lionheart]

Hello and thank you for the welcoming

Yes, we hold the notion that messengers were sent to all nations throughout time. Since the inception of humanity, people were called to monotheism. As time went on, people changed and differed and started innovating new teachings.

When we examine a lot of the ancient religions and a lot of indigenous religions we can see that almost all of them have a core monotheistic message. This supports the notion quite sufficiently.

Maybe our messenger got lost,id like to see the evidence for "almost all of them have a core monotheistic message",i see the opposite.

 

[Come2thelight]

corruption

Corruption isn't only portrayed like that. It could mean a lot more. And there are a lot of ayahs that can attest to this. (2:11, 2:27, 2:30, 2:60, 2:205) and so many more ayahs can be presented where corruption is not portrayed in the way you want. But to be more direct with your point, if a person believes in God and then stops following God's commands, that is them disbelieving at that moment of the wrongdoing.

As proof, read the rest of 33:26, "some YOU killed". We know that "You" is Mohamed.

Actually, it is not. The context starts from 22 and you can see that the believers are the subject.

 

[England my lionheart]

Our choices are the consequences of not accepting the Most Great Peace, everything that has been offered is for us to find that peace.

Ukraine is an example of a symptom of disunity. We have been warned numerous times as to what we will do to each other if we continue to have predudices.

Slavery was abolished by Baha'u'llah in the 1800's, any slavery now, is again an example of a symptom of neglect to implement what God has offered.

Regards Tony

But slavery is sanctioned in the abrahmic books.

 

[Come2thelight]

Yes the Quran is from Allah and no it has not been corrupted, it is the Word of Allah. If we are just talking about the Quran.

If we are talking of men's interpretations, then that is up for discussion.

Hey Tony, I hope you're well.

Do we need people's interpretations when we can learn the text through morphology, semantics, and syntax?

 

[Come2thelight]

Not according to 9:111. It says that Allah has made a deal with believers. He will grant them heaven in exchange for them fighting fee sabil allah. They kill and are killed.

How is this ayah portraying the domination of others?

 

[oldbadger]

I will say that the surface of the earth doesn't look like that of Mars, does it?

Ha ha!...... which proves that ....... errr..... what?

And Mars was once a green planet, or say the astronomers are telling us now.
Look out a lkittle further, I would suggest.

 

[England my lionheart]

Mmm .. we are just manipulated in a more sneaky way .. a financial system that forces people to work for much less than those that run it.

i.e. keeps them in slavery to bankers

But you have the option to quit whereas you dont if you are taken as war booty for example.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But slavery is sanctioned in the abrahmic books.

That law has been abrogated.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey Tony, I hope you're well.

Do we need people's interpretations when we can learn the text through morphology, semantics, and syntax?

Man's interpretation and understanding is prone to error.

Only God's Messenger and those appointed by the Messenger to interpret, are free of error.

Regards Tony