My first post

[stevecanuck]

Everywhere mate!

Wow! This from the person who said, "I hope to find individuals that demonstrate intellectual integrity and can provide a civil and fruitful discussion."

Prue Phillip asked you in post 169, "Where's the oppression?", and you dare to say it's everywhere??? Every Western democracy in the world is bending over backwards to not offend Muslims, let alone not oppress them. Name me one democracy that doesn't allow Muslims to fully, freely, and openly practice their faith or build mosques. You can't. You wouldn't know "intellectual integrity" if it bit your backside.

The fact that there is a forced push for secular and liberal ideologies is oppression in itself.

"Forced push"? You wouldn't happen to be referring to the democratic separation of religion and state, would you? It shouldn't surprise anyone that you're equating not adopting Islam with 'oppression'. After all, that was the only 'crime' the Meccans were guilty of, and it was enough to start a war.

Your attempts at Islamoproganda are as pathetic as they are transparent.

 

[stevecanuck]

However, you can't love somebody who does not love you.

Why not? Remember, Mohamed said, "Love your enemies".




Wait, I got that wrong. It was Jesus who said that. My bad.

 

[stevecanuck]

I don't remember anything you have said that is right.
You pick out verses that you despise and go on and on about you being a scholar of Islam.
It's pure nonsense. You can never speak for what Muslims believe.
You do not believe in righteousness.

You dodged my first question, and then completely ignored the second regarding the massacre of the Banu Quraiza. Here it is again:

Did Mohamed oversee their slaughter or not? If not, what does 33:26 refer to?

 

[oldbadger]

Actually you're making assignations about me that are not true. Whilst I am a Christian,

A contradiction, all in one sentence!

there is a scripture that considers there are to be new heavens and a new earth. 2 Peter 3:15 shows this. "But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

Cephas stood by Jesus! Cephas believed in what Jesus believed in. Cephas believed that the re-instatement of the Old Laws would return their land, the land of the Jews, to righteousness.....heaven on their earth.
And you folks spin this in to trash, imo. It's nothing to do with a new planet or anything else.

So I hope you consider that in the future when you are telling me what I believe. Plus I'm not sure what you mean by "hoped for heaven." Can you please explain what you think this "hoped for heaven" is, or what you think I think about this? Thanks.

You've just described it all. I wasn't wrong.

 

[Sedim Haba]

It's fine, I got a big plate here And maybe because it's 13 pages that's why people are put off from reading it.

If you would like to share one contention, I'd be happy to endulge.

OK, I have only 2 posts after my OP. Lost in all the drama of the thread?
I asked why I was not referred to ANY source. Not even a children's version.

Yes, this is true about RF. I'm also relatively new. Only the OP gets any actual reply.
Everyone is just pursuing their own agendas after that, replaying longstanding feuds.

Shalom/Salaam

 

[Redemptionsong]

That's right. He is pure, and so was Muhammad.

Unintentional sin does not blemish one with impurity.
They did not know they were sinning.

We know that Jesus was without sin, because only a lamb without blemish is acceptable to God. The resurrection proves Jesus Christ's acceptability and unblemished nature.

Can the same be said of Muhammad?

What does 'dhanb' mean? How, according to the Qur'an, does God deal with 'dhanb'?

 

[Come2thelight]

Those are nice but have zero to do with
integrity.

How so?

As for the "keeps finding evidence" that is
similar some ways.

Similar in what sense?

Generally I would say " delusional" is too strong a word.

A person that sticks to a certain belief despite the contrary evidence is the definition of delusional. What is your definition of delusional if not that?

What do you think of your question?

If one finds evidence that points towards a certain belief, then I'd say that belief will eventually become a conviction.

 

[Come2thelight]

Is there,I’m not seeing one.

What did that passage say to you then? Could you please provide your exegesis?

 

[Come2thelight]

Hey Tony, I hope you're well.

they are the Word that became flesh.

What does this mean?

So when in the mid 1800's, in Persia, the Bab and Baha'u'llah were able to meet that challenge

Challenge as in they brought a surah?

And please note that you have not answered my question. Why would an individual not understand the Qur'an's message by understanding the morphology, semantic, and syntax of the text?

You are talking about 'true meanings' of the text which is not what I am referring to. I'm saying can one get a proper understanding of the message by using those three mediums? If not, please elaborate why.

 

[Come2thelight]

Even the greatest of the prophets fell short of the glory of God, according to scripture. Why should Muhammad be different? Was he not a man?

A sin is only a sin if it is not forgiven. Once it goes on your bad record then it is recorded a sin. This wouldn't happen with the Prophet. Nor with any other Prophet after they got Prophethood. They're incapable of consciously sinning as we do.

 

[Come2thelight]

Why not? What good is God’s grace if He is stingy with it? Not sure if a similar story is in the Quran, but in the Bible, Jesus tells many stories about stingy people.

You seemed to misunderstand my comment. The one that doesn't believe in God wouldn't hope for blessings nor consider it to be true, so no need to send it their way. This has nothing to do with God's grace, rather it is more powerful than we know.

 

[Come2thelight]

Nope. You're absolutely wrong about that. If the believers in general were being spoken to directly as you claim, the Qur'an would have used the 3rd person plural conjugation, but it doesn't. It uses the 2nd person singular. SINGULAR. It is speaking to Mohamed. Period.

All you have is gratuitous denial and outright falsehoods. They are your only weapons.

Lol, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

This is given in the context of Mohamed's desire to attack the Byzantines

His only desire was to guide people to Islam.

 

[Come2thelight]

I asked why I was not referred to ANY source.

Source to what?

 

[Come2thelight]

That only makes it worse. It means that unbelievers are automatically, by virtue of nothing more than their disbelief, enemies to Allah.

Your propaganda only works on people who have not studied Islam.

No, taking half of a verse is despicable and you knew that it kills the message you were dishonestly trying to portray. You aren't fooling anyone here with this.

It clearly says. Whoever is an enemy of Allah and His angels, then know that Allah is an enemy back to them. Anyone that wants to pick a fight with Allah, be my guest (so to speak)

 

[Come2thelight]

So an important claim is that the book is perfect.

What do you mean by perfect? The book is perfect in what sense?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey Tony, I hope you're well.

What does this mean?

Challenge as in they brought a surah?

And please note that you have not answered my question. Why would an individual not understand the Qur'an's message by understanding the morphology, semantic, and syntax of the text?

You are talking about 'true meanings' of the text which is not what I am referring to. I'm saying can one get a proper understanding of the message by using those three mediums? If not, please elaborate why.

Peace be with you Come2thelight.

I see I have offered enough, and I wish you well.

Regards Tony

 

[Come2thelight]

There are plenty of theists who claim that god is as apparent to them as the sun. So why exactly does god being as apparent as the sun somehow 'void' god's test? And wouldn't theists who say that god is as apparent to them as the sun also 'void' this test? And if everyone is free to do what they want, how would god being as apparent as the sun void the test?

Those that claim that God is apparent as the sun, either doesn't know what apparent means or they have deluded themselves.

Had God been apparent as the sun, the sincerity of everyone will be compromised. For example, no one will rob a bank knowing for sure that they will get caught. Unless they want to get caught, then that's a different story.

So God lets us act as if we will never get caught (by Him). Only those that believe in God and a Judgement Day will have this concept of getting caught, while those that don't, will not.

 

[muhammad_isa]

However, and it's a big however because it is not the natural way most of us respond, my Lord said that I must love my enemies. Do not return evil for evil.

Yes .. love your enemies for the sake of G-d.
That does not mean that you should turn your back on them.
..any decent Christian soldier will tell you that.

Loving your enemies means feeding them for the sake of G-d .. not maltreating them for the sake of G-d.

It doesn't include pacifism.
That is not what G-d wants from us.
..to let evil predominate in the world.

 

[Come2thelight]

Most relationships are not about dominance and submission, but of cooperation and mutual give and take.

You seemed to have misunderstood. The body is already submissive to the system set up by God, we call it laws of nature. It is the mind that needs to do it too so that there is cooperation.

It seems the same way from my side on to you.

How so?

Why would a God care about acceptance or rejection

Because we were given life and that didn't come from anywhere but the source. Acknowledgment is the first step.

Does God have a ego with associated things like desire for recognition, respect etc.?

No, rather these things are for the betterment of ourselves.

 

[Come2thelight]

Do you believe the Quran was fully protected from literal degradation and not the Enjeel or the Torah? Why do you think so?

Yes, and because Allah says He will protect it, while the protection of those messages was entrusted to the rabbis and monks.