My first post

[Come2thelight]

Hello, I hope you're well. Thank you for your comments.

If the Gospel of Jesus was not reliable and somehow became corrupted or was never written properly, how could the Christians know what was forbidden and what was commanded?

The Christians today can see all the evidence that points to how unreliable the Bible is. Even their own scholars attest to the Bible having changes and that a lot of the authors are unknown. So how can anyone rely on anything the Bible says?

Those who lived before the Quran, according to you did not have a proper and reliable source of guidance, so, my question is, then how could God determine for them, who would go to hell and who would go to Heaven?

Every human being has their own personal account with Allah, how Allah judges them is based on their own lives and circumstances.

But how could in Islam Allah was not specific as who are the truly inspired helpers or companions?

There is a major difference here. Islam is not to a specific group or tribe. All other messengers and prophets came to a specific group. Just by that merit, this whole number 12 concept shouldn't apply.

In verse 3:7, it refers to a specific group of people who are called well-grounded in knowledge (راسخون في العلم). Can you name some who are such?

It doesn't go further than that. Those well-grounded in knowledge can be anyone. But to consider people from the past it would be the Prophet, his companions, and anyone that is well-grounded in knowledge that followed after that, until today.

In the verse 2:60, it says Moses prayed for His Tribe (لقومه). Within this Tribe, there were groups.

It says he (Moses) prayed for water.

What I am saying is, the leaders in previous Revelations were specifically chosen by God, and were inspired. For example the Leaders for Jews were Nabi or Prophets so, they were inspired by God. They were not just ordinary men.

There are at least 50 prophets and prophetesses in Judaism. So clearly it's not just 12.

Link has provided the list of the Twelve.

These leaders did not live at the same time. Usually When a leader died Allah raised another leader. So, I mean it is not like 12 leaders were sent at the same time to 12 tribes.

Jewish people believed in more than just 12. Don't read too much into this mate.

So, who is this first Caliph? Did Allah give any hints who this Person is?

I'm not sure if Muhammad (saw) intended for Ali to be the first Caliph, however Allah decreed it would be Abi Bakr. And everyone gave their pledge to him.

 

[YoursTrue]

No two things are identical, above the molecular level.

We are astonished that you dont see that.

LOL, "we??" It's kind of hard for me to believe that YOU (all?) don't see the earth's uniqueness. Anyway, you're here, alive, maybe you think there are invisible entities working the internet on another planet or universe? Go ahead - tell me -- "could be..." Maybe evolution put those entities in place, right? lolol...have a nice day.

 

[Audie]

LOL, "we??" It's kind of hard for me to believe that YOU (all?) don't see the earth's uniqueness. Anyway, you're here, alive, maybe you think there are invisible entities working the internet on another planet or universe? Go ahead - tell me -- "could be..." Maybe evolution put those entities in place, right? lolol...have a nice day.

We wonder how you could possibly misread something so simple so completely.

Again.

Of course earth is unique.

Everything above molecular level is
unique..

Every grain of sand, every person, planet,
galaxy is unique.

Understand?

 

[oldbadger]

If someone (or a group) defends themselves, it's usually because of an agressor.

Yes, but a defending country is not avwar monger.

Further, yes, the earth is certainly unique in the flowers, the greenery, the animals, etc. I'm pretty well astonished you don't "see" that. (Have a nice day.)

The earth won't be unique in having life. Not possibly.

 

[YoursTrue]

You believe........ I acknowledge your belief.
Countries that defend themselves are not warriors, they are defendants.


You should look at the Hubble's pictures........ You don't actually think that Earth is unique, do you?

I will say that the surface of the earth doesn't look like that of Mars, does it?

 

[YoursTrue]

We wonder how you could possibly misread something so simple so completely.

Again.

Of course earth is unique.

Everything above molecular level is
unique..

Every grain of sand, every person, planet,
galaxy is unique.

Understand?

Yep, I understand. On the other hand, the earth has trees. If you want to get more detailed, sure - every tree is different. But does Mars have trees? Lions? Tigers, lolol! ? Sometimes I wonder -- boy oh boy -- about how people think. But thanks anyway for saying!

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but a defending country is not avwar monger.

The earth won't be unique in having life. Not possibly.

Any discoveries by scientists lately? As to life on other planets? Not "theories," but -- photos of life? Or let me guess -- maybe it's invisible.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but a defending country is not avwar monger.

The earth won't be unique in having life. Not possibly.

By the way, I'm not talking about the future. I'm talking about any signs of trees, plants, animals, that have been observed on any other planet. now.

 

[YoursTrue]

We wonder how you could possibly misread something so simple so completely.

Again.

Of course earth is unique.

Everything above molecular level is
unique..

Every grain of sand, every person, planet,
galaxy is unique.

Understand?

Yup. I understand you and I are somewhat alike but different. But again -- the surface of Mars doesn't show trees, tigers, greenery, does it? maybe it's invisible...

 

[YoursTrue]

Hello, I hope you're well. Thank you for your comments.



The Christians today can see all the evidence that points to how unreliable the Bible is. Even their own scholars attest to the Bible having changes and that a lot of the authors are unknown. So how can anyone rely on anything the Bible says?



Every human being has their own personal account with Allah, how Allah judges them is based on their own lives and circumstances.




There is a major difference here. Islam is not to a specific group or tribe. All other messengers and prophets came to a specific group. Just by that merit, this whole number 12 concept shouldn't apply.




It doesn't go further than that. Those well-grounded in knowledge can be anyone. But to consider people from the past it would be the Prophet, his companions, and anyone that is well-grounded in knowledge that followed after that, until today.



It says he (Moses) prayed for water.



There are at least 50 prophets and prophetesses in Judaism. So clearly it's not just 12.




Jewish people believed in more than just 12. Don't read too much into this mate.



I'm not sure if Muhammad (saw) intended for Ali to be the first Caliph, however Allah decreed it would be Abi Bakr. And everyone gave their pledge to him.

Not speaking about Muhammed but about what I heard recently about the persecution of faiths other than Muslim in Afghanistan now. Which makes me also wonder -- what sect is mainly in Afghanistan? I know they speak of the Taliban, but I don't know too much about that in terms of their beliefs as far as governmental control goes.

 

[Audie]

Yup. I understand you and I are somewhat alike but different. But again -- the surface of Mars doesn't show trees, tigers, greenery, does it? maybe it's invisible...

You are being silly, but if making fun of yourself amuses you, maybe dont do it here?

 

[Come2thelight]

Hello and thank you for your comment.

Are you born into a Muslim family or did you convert?

Yes, I was born into a Muslim family but was never practicing. You could say I reverted in my late 20s

It is my sense that many Muslim majority countries do not allow other religions to freely preach their religion or allow Muslims to convert to other religions (or become atheists). In your view is this in accordance with Islam? Why or why not?

Every self-proclaimed Muslim country in the world follows its own version of the law. Cherry-picking what best fits them. But in an ideal Islamic state, people should be allowed to share their views of their own religion in a civilized manner. If they are trying to disrupt the peace then there could be an issue.

As for the Muslim that just wants to stop being Muslim nothing will happen to them. But if they go out and try to dirupt the peace then there could be an issue.

Many Muslims seem to oppose very established scientific theories like the theory of evolution etc.? What is position regarding science and Islam?

Muslims that deny all of evolution are just uneducated. It is quite factual and there was even a Muslim scientist that foreshadowed this in the 9th century. His name is Abu Uthman Al Basri, better known as Al Jahiz. Check him out.

Concerning your question about science and Islam. The Prophet (pbuh) said that it is a duty on all Muslims that they become seekers of knowledge. The Quran itself constantly tells the reader to observe life and everything around us so that we can gain knowledge. So under this light, they pretty much go hand in hand. Everything is a sign of intelligence, even within ourselves.

 

[sayak83]

Hello and thank you for your comment.



Yes, I was born into a Muslim family but was never practicing. You could say I reverted in my late 20s



Every self-proclaimed Muslim country in the world follows its own version of the law. Cherry-picking what best fits them. But in an ideal Islamic state, people should be allowed to share their views of their own religion in a civilized manner. If they are trying to disrupt the peace then there could be an issue.

As for the Muslim that just wants to stop being Muslim nothing will happen to them. But if they go out and try to dirupt the peace then there could be an issue.




Muslims that deny all of evolution are just uneducated. It is quite factual and there was even a Muslim scientist that foreshadowed this in the 9th century. His name is Abu Uthman Al Basri, better known as Al Jahiz. Check him out.

Concerning your question about science and Islam. The Prophet (pbuh) said that it is a duty on all Muslims that they become seekers of knowledge. The Quran itself constantly tells the reader to observe life and everything around us so that we can gain knowledge. So under this light, they pretty much go hand in hand. Everything is a sign of intelligence, even within ourselves.

Can you expand on what you mean by disturbing the peace?

 

[Come2thelight]

1 - Billions of people - including me - believe in the separation of church and state. We don't want to be ruled by ANY religion.

Who is forcing you to?

2 - Islam is frequently misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semitic, and anti-other-faiths. Again, these tendencies divide people, and we need to be united, not divided.

How is it misogynistic?
Why should we be forced to accept a tendency Allah condemned (Homosexuality)?
How is Islam anti-semitic? Don't you know Arabs are Semites too?
And we are not anti-other-faiths. We are only anti-corruption and anti-injustice.

It seems quite logical for me to conclude that Muslims will conclude that I am somehow "less" than they are because I don't believe in Islam's messages.

Any Muslim that thinks that is completely wrong and just arrogant.

There are many examples, but I think one that is most revealing is the violence that Shia and Sunni commit against each other

Ya it's quite sad

This was in response to my conclusion that the 2nd Surah informs us that non-believers are doomed by Allah, for the sin of being the way he created us. Okay, tell me how I got this wrong.

If that's all you got from Surah 2 then I can understand why you have an issue with Islam.

 

[Come2thelight]

I personally see Allah did renew Islam in Persia in the 19th Century.

How did it get renewed in the 19th century?

And why did Islam need a renewal?

 

[Come2thelight]

Hello, and I hope you're well.

So would you say there is a spiritual definitive difference between the various sects of any religion? just wondering what you think. Thank for your answer. I mean would you say that any religion is ok with whatever a person aligns himself with?

If you mean everyone is free to believe whatever they want, then the answer is yes.

If you mean that there are multiple ways to salvation, then the answer is no. Salvation doesn't come to those that associate any partners to the source of existence. Salvation doesn't come to those that don't repent and change their ways and so forth.

 

[Come2thelight]

So if I understand you correctly, do you go to a mosque that is not considered a particular unique sect of Islam?

Every Muslim is required to pray. If they hear a mosque, it would be better to go there and pray alongside our brothers. Praying in congregation amplifies the effect in a spiritual manner. If there is no mosque and it's time for prayer, they should pray where ever they are. And if others are around, then it is recommended that they all pray together.

After looking into this before, it seems that various sets of teachings differ from other Muslim teachings?

Yes, as time went on, people started to introduce new things in the religion and this eventually broke off and became a wing. These sects are usually branches of other sects. The best way to follow is the way of the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh).

Thanks by the way for a considerable explanatory answer from you.

No need to thank me friend. Thank you for being civil. Please, always feel free to ask anything you want, even if you think it could be offensive. The best way to learn is to ask.

 

[Come2thelight]

And I'm saying that the test is void if anyone believes that there is a god that is watching and judging them. The true test of morality if what a person does if they're convinced that no one is watching or judging them. Thus your god is only able to 'test' non-believers, since believers don't think that there is anything they do that they are not being watched and judged for.

These ayahs in the Quran came to mind when I was reading this. Allah says;

Surely the Hour is coming––though I choose to keep it hidden––for each soul to be rewarded for its labor. Do not let anyone who does not believe in it and follows his own desires distract you from it, and so bring you to ruin.’ 20:15,16

The sincerity will go if God was apparent as the sun. The employee that doesn't feel like being productive will be forced to work if their boss is looking directly at their screen.

 

[icehorse]

How is it misogynistic?
Why should we be forced to accept a tendency Allah condemned (Homosexuality)?
How is Islam anti-semitic? Don't you know Arabs are Semites too?
And we are not anti-other-faiths. We are only anti-corruption and anti-injustice.

Again, by supporting the Quran, you set yourself a difficult task. For 1400 years or so, Muslims have been misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-semitic, and anti-other-faiths simply by making simple, logical conclusions by reading the Quran.

Any Muslim that thinks that is completely wrong and just arrogant.

No, they're just accepting what the Quran tells them. Again, anyone who follows the Quran has set themselves an impossible task to also argue that they are somehow also accepting of non-Muslims. The Quran is very clear, over and over and over and over again on this point.

If that's all you got from Surah 2 then I can understand why you have an issue with Islam.

Okay, a quick bit of logical reasoning for you. I do not believe that EVERY line in the Quran is a problem. And I don't have to! All I have to demonstrate is that SOME ideas in the Quran are problematic.

Because remember, Muslims have decided to tell the rest of the world that the Quran is perfect. This is YOUR claim that you ask the rest of us to accept. So all the rest of us have to do is find examples where the book is flawed, and that's enough to disprove Muslims' claims of perfection. You guys set yourself up for this with the claims you decide to make.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How did it get renewed in the 19th century?

And why did Islam need a renewal?

Allah always sends a Messenger amongst the people that need it most. Persia in the mid 1800's was such a place.

Islamin Persia at that time had already touched the lowest depths of moral and spiritual degradation.

An example of this was offered by Shoghi Effendi, he has written,

".....The appalling misery and wretchedness to which the Israelites had sunk, under the debasing and tyrannical rule of the Pharaohs, in the days preceding their exodus from Egypt under the leadership of Moses; the decline that had set in in the religious, the spiritual, the cultural, and the moral life of the Jewish people, at the time of the appearance of Jesus Christ; the barbarous cruelty, the gross idolatry and immorality, which had for so long been the most distressing features of the tribes of Arabia and brought such shame upon them when Muhammad arose to proclaim His Message in their midst;........."

It then goes on to offer,

"..........the indescribable state of decadence, with its attendant corruption, confusion, intolerance, and oppression, in both the civil and religious life of Persia, so graphically portrayed by the pen of a considerable number of scholars, diplomats, and travelers...."

That was mid 1800 Persia when Allah sent the Bab and then Bahá’u’lláh to fulfil the Covernant of Allah.

When one reads of those times, it is an eye opener.

Regards Tony