"My God, My God, Why Has Thou Forsaken Me?

[javajo]

God cannot look upon sin. Jesus was made sin for us, and at that moment, God's wrath was poured out on Jesus in our place. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21. Praise him for his great love that he died in our place, took our sin, our shame for us who had no hope. Oh, the joy and the glory he will receive when we all get to Heaven and Praise the Lamb that was slain, the Only, Worthy Son of God who loved the world that WHOSOEVER-that's you and me, anybody, the worst sinner in the world, whosoever believeth in him hath everlasting life. Give God praise and glory!

 

[Thief]

God cannot look upon sin. Jesus was made sin for us, and at that moment, God's wrath was poured out on Jesus in our place. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21. Praise him for his great love that he died in our place, took our sin, our shame for us who had no hope. Oh, the joy and the glory he will receive when we all get to Heaven and Praise the Lamb that was slain, the Only, Worthy Son of God who loved the world that WHOSOEVER-that's you and me, anybody, the worst sinner in the world, whosoever believeth in him hath everlasting life. Give God praise and glory!

Another rant.

 

[smokydot]

Another rant.

You either believe Jesus is the Christ,
who came to die as propitiation of God's just wrath on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son. . .or you don't.

Evidently, you don't.

It's a matter of faith.

 

[javajo]

did he just call me an ant?

 

[Thief]

You either believe Jesus is the Christ,
who came to die as propitiation of God's just wrath on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son. . .or you don't.

Evidently, you don't.

It's a matter of faith.

Of Himself He did say...'brother and fellow servant'.

His word on this is clear.

As for Him being the Anointed One...I don't mind you say so.

As for Him being your scapegoat...no.

 

[Thief]

did he just call me an ant?

No....
Ants are colonial creatures bound by their chemistry.

How about you?
Safety in numbers for you?
Dare not speak on your own behalf?

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Perhaps he was simply anguished. Perhaps he was afraid to die. These are natural human things. I don't think a person incapable of fear or doubt or despair would really be a human.

We know that Jesus definitely feared the pain and suffering that was to come upon Him. He even prayed to His Father in 'the garden', asking His Father if it was still necessary to continue on, or if there was a way to avoid what was to come.

There is still the problem, that if The Father commanded that Jesus had the power to give up His life and take it back again, and Jesus, Himself, knew and taught this, then......What happened while He was on the cross, that made Him cry out?

Evidently, Jesus must have tried to 'give up His life', and could not. Sin had been in the world ever since Adam & Eve. Sin had been around for thousands of years. There is no scriptural proof, that The Father could not 'look upon the sin' that Jesus took upon Himself. The Father has always known of all sins committed by man. This is why The Son had to be made flesh and be crucified. Something else must have happened. It makes more sense to me, that The Son, had to prove, that even under the most fearful conditions, that He would remain 'worthy until the end', and continue His faith in The Father.

 

[free spirit]

We know that Jesus definitely feared the pain and suffering that was to come upon Him. He even prayed to His Father in 'the garden', asking His Father if it was still necessary to continue on, or if there was a way to avoid what was to come.

There is still the problem, that if The Father commanded that Jesus had the power to give up His life and take it back again, and Jesus, Himself, knew and taught this, then......What happened while He was on the cross, that made Him cry out?

Evidently, Jesus must have tried to 'give up His life', and could not. Sin had been in the world ever since Adam & Eve. Sin had been around for thousands of years. There is no scriptural proof, that The Father could not 'look upon the sin' that Jesus took upon Himself. The Father has always known of all sins committed by man. This is why The Son had to be made flesh and be crucified. Something else must have happened. It makes more sense to me, that The Son, had to prove, that even under the most fearful conditions, that He would remain 'worthy until the end', and continue His faith in The Father.

Your argument is not conclusive, we all should ask ourselves, why Jesus had to pay for our sins with His life? The answer is found in Matthew 5:17, for Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”
We know that all the prophecies that were written about Him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as His life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law He had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9:27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” It stands to reason that only after death can the judgement be final, because only then men can no longer sin.
We know that Adam could not keep one simple law (Genesis 2:17) and as a consequence mankind had to die. But Jesus, a type of Adam, kept all of the law, despite the temptation within Himself to escape death, as well as the temptation to respond to those who inflicted on Him excruciating pain and verbal abuses. Yet in all that agonising time He did not utter one single complaint or accusing word, but blessed them by forgiving them. Because of that He fulfilled the law (or accomplished God’s will). In consequence He reversed what Adam did, therefore now the entire human race has justification of life.
He died to free us from the curse of the law.
Thank you Lord Jesus.

 

[smokydot]

Your argument is not conclusive, we all should ask ourselves, why Jesus had to pay for our sins with His life? The answer is found in Matthew 5:17, for Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”
We know that all the prophecies that were written about Him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as His life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law He had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9:27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” It stands to reason that only after death can the judgement be final, because only then men can no longer sin.
We know that Adam could not keep one simple law (Genesis 2:17) and as a consequence mankind had to die. But Jesus, a type of Adam, kept all of the law, despite the temptation within Himself to escape death, as well as the temptation to respond to those who inflicted on Him excruciating pain and verbal abuses. Yet in all that agonising time He did not utter one single complaint or accusing word, but blessed them by forgiving them. Because of that He fulfilled the law (or accomplished God’s will). In consequence He reversed what Adam did, therefore now the entire human race has justification of life.
He died to free us from the curse of the law.
Thank you Lord Jesus.

And he also fulfilled the Levitical law, becoming the new High Priest who offered the perfect once-for-all sacrifice,
and became the mediator of a new covenant in his blood, a new covenant with better promises.
Thank you, Lord Jesus.

 

[smokydot]

Of Himself He did say...'brother and fellow servant'.
His word on this is clear.
As for Him being the Anointed One...I don't mind you say so.
As for Him being your scapegoat...no.

The Bible is foreign to you. . .you pick and choose parts which you then distort to support your non-Biblical beliefs,
and also do the same with other parts which clearly contradict your non-Biblical beliefs.

What is "metaphorical" about, "I came to die as a ransom for the sin of many."

What is "metaphorical" about, "my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sin."
If you knew the Bible, you would know exactly what that means.

"I am the good shepherd who dies for his sheep."

The Bible is completely foreign to you. . .you treat it as an esoterical document, which it is anything but. . .
drop the foreign grid through which you view it.
The Bible is not esoterical, it is exoterical.

You are deluding yourself. . .you are no theologian, rogue or otherwise.
That indisputable fact is proven in your rejection of the basic NT doctrine that Jesus the Christ died in propitiation of God's just wrath
on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son.

You delude yourself, foolishly thinking you have the power to unseat the Word of God written.
You cannot understand it if you don't believe it, which you do not. Therefore, it is a closed book to you. . .and you are just kicking against the goad.

 

[Thief]

The Bible is foreign to you. . .you pick and choose parts which you then distort to support your non-Biblical beliefs,
and also do the same with other parts which clearly contradict your non-Biblical beliefs.

What is "metaphorical" about, "I came to die as a ransom for the sin of many."

What is "metaphorical" about, "my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for the forgiveness of sin."
If you knew the Bible, you would know exactly what that means.

"I am the good shepherd who dies for his sheep."

The Bible is completely foreign to you. . .you treat it as an esoterical document, which it is anything but. . .
drop the foreign grid through which you view it.
The Bible is not esoterical, it is exoterical.

You are deluding yourself. . .you are no theologian, rogue or otherwise.
That indisputable fact is proven in your rejection of the basic NT doctrine that Jesus the Christ died in propitiation of God's just wrath
on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son.

You delude yourself, foolishly thinking you have the power to unseat the Word of God written.
You cannot understand it if you don't believe it, which you do not. Therefore, it is a closed book to you. . .and you are just kicking against the goad.

You have completely lost focus on the topic of this thread.

But that is expected of people that rant.
Would you like to go back to topic?

"Why have you forsaken me"...is more than an expression of pain and suffering.

It describes accurately what the Carpenter was experiencing at that moment.
There was no comfort for Him as He died.
The Spirit that He knew so well.... was silent.

And I think you need to view the definition of metaphor.

 

[javajo]

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21

 

[Thief]

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21

....disciple of Paul are you?

And this is not a salvation thread.

 

[smokydot]

You have completely lost focus on the topic of this thread.
But that is expected of people that rant.

So sorry, for you, that you find the Word of God written in the NT so repulsive that you must equate it with rant. . .

Would you like to go back to topic?

Would you?

"Why have you forsaken me"...is more than an expression of pain and suffering.
It describes accurately what the Carpenter was experiencing at that moment.
There was no comfort for Him as He died.
The Spirit that He knew so well.... was silent.

That's what the wrath of God means. . .dreadful separation from him. . .which he suffered as part of his propitiation of God's just wrath
on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son.

And I think you need to view the definition of metaphor.

And I think you need to view as fact what the Word of God written reports as fact, and not metaphor.

 

[javajo]

....disciple of Paul are you?

And this is not a salvation thread.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21

I put that verse because that is why Jesus was forsaken by God, because he became sin for us, and God cannot look upon sin. Paul was an apostle, inspired by the Holy Spirit, I am just a Christian saved by grace.

 

[Thief]

So sorry, for you, that you find the Word of God written in the NT so repulsive that you must equate it with rant. . .
Would you?
That's what the wrath of God means. . .dreadful separation from him. . .which he suffered as part of his propitiation of God's just wrath
on the sin of those who believe in his only begotten Son.
And I think you need to view as fact what the Word of God written reports as fact, and not metaphor.

Everything He taught was in metaphor.

..."and not without a parable did He teach"

And God did not dictate the death of His only Son for your sake.

Jesus did not save by His death.
He saved by the life He lived.

 

[javajo]

Jesus did not save by His death.
He saved by the life He lived.

Luke 24:
44And he (Jesus) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things.

Isaiah 53:
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. ...for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. ...because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Thief]

Luke 24:
44And he (Jesus) said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48And ye are witnesses of these things.

Isaiah 53:
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. ...for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. ...because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Another salvation rant....however...

The last seven words are correct.

 

[smokydot]

Another salvation rant....however...

So sorry, for you, that the Word of God written is as repulsive to you as a rant. . .

The last seven words are correct.

All the words are correct. . .they are the Word of God written. . .on which you impose a foreign grid for "interpretation". . .

 

[free spirit]

javajo;2254964]

God cannot look upon sin. Jesus was made sin for us, and at that moment, God's wrath was poured out on Jesus in our place. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21. Praise him for his great love that he died in our place, took our sin, our shame for us who had no hope. Oh, the joy and the glory he will receive when we all get to Heaven and Praise the Lamb that was slain, the Only, Worthy Son of God who loved the world that WHOSOEVER-that's you and me, anybody, the worst sinner in the world, whosoever believeth in him hath everlasting life. Give God praise and glory![/

We all know that our Lord became flesh for us and consequently He was made sin, because the flesh and sin are one and the same. Therefore He was not made sin on the cross, He was made sin when He was made flesh. Also our Lord (who is a type of Adam) took those of us who are faithful in Himself on the cross. He also took the sin (flesh) of the whole world on the cross for the justification of all humanity as He fulfilled the law by being obedient even to death. As you know death is not a curse, it is the consequence of sin. However, the law became a curse to us because we could not keep it. By doing all of the above He became a blessing for all those who believe and obey Him.