waitasec
Veteran Member
Well...if you like we can start a topic somewhere....
'why disbelief is dysfunctional in religious debate'.
seems to me thief, you have a problem with the existence of opposing views...
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Well...if you like we can start a topic somewhere....
'why disbelief is dysfunctional in religious debate'.
seems to me thief, you have a problem with the existence of opposing views...
shallow ...and false ...accusation.
Care to discuss?
Answer the previous post.
your goal post repositioning of not being allowed to speak about ones view on religious and or spiritual matters if one does not adhere to that way of thinking
fyi...
this isn't north korea.
I don't see it as fair warning. Did you believe Harold Camping? Doubt it. But why did so few people believe him? Because it was a stupid claim with nothing backing it up, except for apparent numbers in the bible that translated to May 21st.Well...if you like we can start a topic somewhere....
'why disbelief is dysfunctional in religious debate'.
As for this topic....'why have you forsaken me'
is an item that shouldn't require so much rhetoric.
As the Man hung on the cross...dying....His remark clearly indicates....
The Spirit that bolstered His speech and deed was not responding.
I see this event as fair warning.
If the angels are willing to stand back and allow the end as displayed in gospel...
I then expect the same, as my last breath is surrendered.
Silence.
I never said you're not allowed.....
I find discussion with non-believers to be little more than word game.
<snip>
If the non-believer was really interested in 'learning'....
complaints and accusations would simply not be used.
Shall we now go back to the 'silence'?
he was denied...What was that you were saying about the Carpenter? (topic)
he was denied...
still is.
I don't see it as fair warning. Did you believe Harold Camping? Doubt it. But why did so few people believe him? Because it was a stupid claim with nothing backing it up, except for apparent numbers in the bible that translated to May 21st.
If Jesus was trying to help us, he did a ****** job.
are you proselytizing?Finally... a straight forward answer.
See? you CAN draw a line.
It might not serve you well...later on....but you can do it.
Well...if you like we can start a topic somewhere....
'why disbelief is dysfunctional in religious debate'.
I can debate the history, the traditions and the translations all the while disbelieving the fantastical claims made in your scripture.>>>Dirty Penguin
sure you can.I'm sure you can, and very well indeed. But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience.
how convenient that what we cannot validate is beyond being validated...You see, there is a two part component to humanity; the spirit and the flesh.
Yes, we have a spirit but one that had become lost, lost spiritually speaking, meaning non renewable.
Became lost in the creation process of which we have no fault in the matter.
Enter: Jesus.
Only God Himself as one of us, fleshly, human could offer us redemption by sacrificing only one, verses all of us to oblivion.
Thus salvation comes to all mankind save none.
However, we are faulted/responsible for our own behavior and subject to consequences.
How does this relate to the OP subject?
Simple. Jesus as a human, must willingly offer Himself as God's offering of sacriffice for the whole of humanity, even for all unbelievers.
God's sacrificial lamp (Jesus) was predicted in the scriptures and all that Jesus had to endure in the process, even the silence period at the cross.
A picture of Jesus being God's offering is in the story of Abraham and Issac.
Here is a ref to silence being a period of time: ISA 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.
JESUS HAS DIED ON THE CROSS, THIS 1,000 YEAR DAY SEEN AS ALIVE 930 YEARS AS ADAM, AND DEAD 70 YEARS AS JERUSALEM. THE THOUGHTS OF CHRIST PERISH FOR THE HOUR AND FORTY MINUTES. THEN HE IS REVIVED, AND REMEMBERS TYRE. "THE DAYS OF ONE KING" IS THE DAY OF THE CROSS. TYRE SINGING LIKE A HARLOT IS JESUS LOVING ALL MANKIND.
You see, one can read the bible cover to cover and not see what I just explained.
The bible can only be seen to reveal truth via the Holy Spirits help.
Ref: Jer 31:34 And they shall (Future)teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
And who are the "they"?
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
What does that mean? 1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Which goes along with the following verse: Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Contest bible scriptures all we want, for the "meat" of understanding is foreign as like a child who is still being fed milk.
"Silence" is a lack of spiritual understanding for a time, but afterwards, revelation.
Blessings, AJ
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You will need a fresh thread topic to support this discussion....
But I will ask anyway...
What did the Carpenter fail to do for you?
He failed to give a warning worthy of note. To me, Jesus was a man who was able to make many people follow what he said. That does not make what he said any more believable. To say he gave us fair warning is like saying every other doomsday spewer gave us fair warning. Is it fair if it is not believable in the slightest?
how convenient that what we cannot validate is beyond being validated...
the rest of you post is proselytizing
as it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
you realize you are being presumptuous...Let me rephrase that: "But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience". to read: But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without via the rebirth experience" is what I meant to say.
Thanks for pointing that out.
One is needed over the other!
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Explaining my view on the subject via scripture as a way of looking at it in a different light is proselytizing?
Is anybody's view presented not proselytizing?
All sides should be heard for ah picking.
As for the subject, yes very much to do with the silence factor, but, Like I said quote "you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit without via the rebirth experience" for the revelation of spiritual matters in the bible texts.
Blessings, AJ
He failed to give a warning worthy of note. To me, Jesus was a man who was able to make many people follow what he said. That does not make what he said any more believable. To say he gave us fair warning is like saying every other doomsday spewer gave us fair warning. Is it fair if it is not believable in the slightest?
I see it as not being important to theological discussions. There are plenty of non-Christian theologians. As far as dysfunctional you actually have a multitude of denominations of Christians and theologians and it's obvious by how splintered they all are that it's not important to be a believer in order to critique scripture.
While it is true that I'm not a believer it doesn't preclude me from critiquing your scripture. I can debate the history, the traditions and the translations all the while disbelieving the fantastical claims made in your scripture. You choose to believe all of that.
The thread question was a general one raised to anyone who wishes to comment. Had the OP simply wanted the opinions of Christians she would have placed in the proper area. I am finding more and more here at RF when non-believers challenge your scriptures, preconceived notions and your (in general) lack of knowledge concerning biblical history, belief and the obvious fallibility of your scripture then someone dusts off the old 'you're not a believer so you shouldn't be commenting' rhetoric.....
curious,is that a prerequisite of being a believer? seems to me that is a common thread amongst you folks.>>>Thief
i had a supposed rebirth experience....many many times...
I'm sure you can, and very well indeed. But, you can not debate the validity of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit via the rebirth experience.
You see, there is a two part component to humanity; the spirit and the flesh.
Yes, we have a spirit but one that had become lost, lost spiritually speaking, meaning non renewable.
Became lost in the creation process of which we have no fault in the matter.
Enter: Jesus.
Only God Himself as one of us, fleshly, human could offer us redemption by sacrificing only one, verses all of us to oblivion.
Simple. Jesus as a human, must willingly offer Himself as God's offering of sacriffice for the whole of humanity, even for all unbelievers.