My God Why have you forsaken me

[look3467]

Lack of agreement....allows others to label me as a liar?....a hypocrite?>>>Thief

Far be it that I should be one to judge you such.

Would it be just to say that if a supposed vessel be said to be full, and I judged it to be empty, evidenced by the lack of spiritual Godly content?

I base my comments on what I believe to be scriptural spiritually, as a point of view on the subject matter.

Because: some may not agree with my views does in any way make that person evil, IMO.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Do you see your predictable pattern unfolding here?>>>Dirty Penguin

Of course it is faith based! Have I not been saying all along that in order to understand spiritual truths one must first be born of His spirit?

The example of one trying to communicate with an ant colony is one where one must become as an ant to do so.

Yes, God did communicate via the prophets, but which prophet was able to take/forgive the sins of the world?

John 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Two separate entities with two separate wills.

Absolutely! But there is a difference.

The first Adam by separation (Separate entity) became lost because of it.

The second type of Adam, thou separate in body form, was one with the Father.

And the verse you quoted above testifies to that truth by not doing His own will ()as separate) ..."but Him that sent me"... will makes then both as one, as if Jesus was the Father incarnate.

Our separation from God is self will, and that self will must be worked out to conform to the will of the Father only by first being reborn of His spirit could we hope to accomplish it.

Matthew 15:24
......I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Yes, but did they not reject Him?" The designed rejection by God was so that in Jesus the whole world might be included.

Those words were made prior to Jesus' death on the cross, which made it a true statement.

But look afterwards, after His resurrection.....not only they but all of humanity were included. Hence the beauty of His rejection.

Willing sacrifice..?
Luke 22:36
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica] "But now," he said, "take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one![/FONT]
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou will.
Matthew 26:42
He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Matthew 26:44
And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

This is the pivoting point between the strength of the flesh verses the spirit of God.

The flesh must be conquered in all it's glory in order for God to reconcile us back to Himself as one, and not as separate entities, as in first Adam.

Jesus a second type of Adam won out over the first Adam in that Jesus never became separate from the Father (Spiritually) in that He was one with Him always.

Now, all who are in Jesus share in His oneness with the Father as we become one with Him. We loose our self identity but not our soul.

And look.......I don't expect conversions from anything I say........that is God's work.

I present my views, take it or leave it.

Blessings, AJ

 

[waitasec]

A prerequisite? Absolutely!

By Jesus' own words: Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Who amongst all of humanity had seen/see the kingdom of God save Jesus?

Being Jesus was the first, all subsequent believers in Him shall also see the kingdom of God via the rebirth experience spiritually.

"Marvel not"because only the spirit of God can reveal it us.

Ref: Luk 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Babes as in newborns spiritually.

presumptions are self defeating...

Supposed but not really experienced? What part was holding you back?

Blessings, AJ

being presumptuous....



btw, the quote you quoted was mine, not thief's

 

[look3467]

Presumptuous huh? there is no presuming when one had an experience with the all mighty.

Based on that and how the all mighty has influenced my life, literally, has blessed me beyond my understanding.

That experience is not limited, but given freely to whose ever thirsts for it.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Spirit (God the Father), bride (Jesus) say Come, to and him (You, I, any of us) after hearing of it say, come.

Then if after that, if not by hearing than by thirsting after, say come. Then if still not convinced, then whosoever will, take it freely.

I mean all bases are covered in that verse to include all.

Why is it then that it can not be seen in that manner? No faith?

If I equated fire with experience, and stated that the experience would change you, as fire is stated to burn if touched, would I be not stating a truth?

No experience no change.

Blessings, AJ

Btw, I apologize for attributing a quote of another to you.

 

[Daviso452]

Presumptuous huh? there is no presuming when one had an experience with the all mighty.

Yet there are many others who say they have been in touch with their own deity. I presume you believe they are speaking with Satan, trying to lure them away from the one true God?

 

[Thief]

Anyone here still focused on that moment, indicated by the title?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Anyone here still focused on that moment, indicated by the title?

I'm still here :yes:

 

[waitasec]

Presumptuous huh? there is no presuming when one had an experience with the all mighty.

well tell that to those who flew into the WTC, i'm sure they experienced the same experience giving them the license to do that horrific act...
impressive.

yes presumption.

 

[waitasec]

this character jesus in mark, the 1st gospel written, died.

just as the hope for the jews to undermine roman rule died...


fact.

 

[look3467]

Yet there are many others who say they have been in touch with their own deity. I presume you believe they are speaking with Satan, trying to lure them away from the one true God?

I don't presume anything other than what words entail, as to whether an experience with a deity has has induced a life changing experience embracing the following qualities: Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

If those qualities are demonstrated based on an encounter with a deity, I say, they come from God.

As for Satan, I believe the potential for evil is in us all and our responsibility is to keep evil in check.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

well tell that to those who flew into the WTC, i'm sure they experienced the same experience giving them the license to do that horrific act...
impressive.

yes presumption.

When God created Adam, He gave Adam the ability to be his own man. As a god of his own life, privileged only and limited to decision making.

Adam was subjected to vanity, to live with it and subdue it but could not, because it was more powerful than he.

Jesus on the other hand, as God could subdue it.

The question of silence at the cross had to do with His completing His mission, as silence was an answer to "yes, you must go all the way".

One has to realize the magnitude of that situation, for Jesus was experiencing the alienation, as a Son, from the Father verses our experiencing our alienation from the Father. Meaning, a real hell: being created, experiencing life, dying and then not to ever live again?

That is what was meant for us as created beings. With no fault of our own, and not having any power to do anything about it.

Yet in Jesus, the love of the Father towards us remedied that situation by the His silence towards Jesus, as He alone was to be the alienated in our place.

Of course I don't expect you to believe a word of it, but there it is.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Daviso452]

When God created Adam, He gave Adam the ability to be his own man. As a god of his own life, privileged only and limited to decision making.

Adam was subjected to vanity, to live with it and subdue it but could not, because it was more powerful than he.

Jesus on the other hand, as God could subdue it.

The question of silence at the cross had to do with His completing His mission, as silence was an answer to "yes, you must go all the way".

One has to realize the magnitude of that situation, for Jesus was experiencing the alienation, as a Son, from the Father verses our experiencing our alienation from the Father. Meaning, a real hell: being created, experiencing life, dying and then not to ever live again?

That is what was meant for us as created beings. With no fault of our own, and not having any power to do anything about it.

Yet in Jesus, the love of the Father towards us remedied that situation by the His silence towards Jesus, as He alone was to be the alienated in our place.

Of course I don't expect you to believe a word of it, but there it is.

Blessings, AJ

How do we know that Jesus was able to subdue vanity? It does not say he did in the bible, but isn't that something they would leave out on purpose in order to preserve his "holiness"?

But here is something else; He punishes Adam for a single sin, something he had never done before in his life. Adam had free will, yes, but not a single ounce of past experience. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." That is a true statement. Adam did not know the severity of what it was he was doing; he was told not to by god, and threatened with punishment. Did Adam know how bad punishment was? No! He had never experienced it! He didn't know what it was like to suffer, because he had lived in the garden of Eden for his whole life!

Basically, if God is real, and the story of Adam and Eve is true, then God purposely put Adam and Eve in their because he wanted Humanity to learn from our own mistake. He was the real reason why humanity fell.

Although I've heard some say, "No, it was the fault of man." Didn't God create Man? Didn't God know how man worked? How everything worked? If God did not know man needed experience to know not to do something, would that no remove his Omniscience?

 

[waitasec]

When God created Adam, He gave Adam the ability to be his own man. As a god of his own life, privileged only and limited to decision making.
Adam was subjected to vanity, to live with it and subdue it but could not, because it was more powerful than he.

Jesus on the other hand, as God could subdue it.

The question of silence at the cross had to do with His completing His mission, as silence was an answer to "yes, you must go all the way".

One has to realize the magnitude of that situation, for Jesus was experiencing the alienation, as a Son, from the Father verses our experiencing our alienation from the Father. Meaning, a real hell: being created, experiencing life, dying and then not to ever live again?

That is what was meant for us as created beings. With no fault of our own, and not having any power to do anything about it.

Yet in Jesus, the love of the Father towards us remedied that situation by the His silence towards Jesus, as He alone was to be the alienated in our place.

Of course I don't expect you to believe a word of it, but there it is.

Blessings, AJ

i have no idea how this has anything to do with presuming what the god of the bible is...and what the god of the bible wants

excellent ducking technique.

 

[Thief]

How do we know that Jesus was able to subdue vanity? It does not say he did in the bible, but isn't that something they would leave out on purpose in order to preserve his "holiness"?

But here is something else; He punishes Adam for a single sin, something he had never done before in his life. Adam had free will, yes, but not a single ounce of past experience. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." That is a true statement. Adam did not know the severity of what it was he was doing; he was told not to by god, and threatened with punishment. Did Adam know how bad punishment was? No! He had never experienced it! He didn't know what it was like to suffer, because he had lived in the garden of Eden for his whole life!

Basically, if God is real, and the story of Adam and Eve is true, then God purposely put Adam and Eve in their because he wanted Humanity to learn from our own mistake. He was the real reason why humanity fell.

Although I've heard some say, "No, it was the fault of man." Didn't God create Man? Didn't God know how man worked? How everything worked? If God did not know man needed experience to know not to do something, would that no remove his Omniscience?

This would be correct when taken to the light....and looked at carefully.
The garden event is definitely the turning point.
A situation to alter the body and course of Man.

Was the technique harsh?....could say 'yeah'....
Was it needful?....yeah.

Apparently the species made on Day Six was behaving too much like an animal.
Day Seven nothing more will be created...rest.
Then Chapter Two....a story of manipulation.

Fall from grace?...a poor assumption.
Kicked out the petri dish?...yeah.

 

[look3467]

Daviso452

How do we know that Jesus was able to subdue vanity?

First: one must wonder why was there a fall.
Second: how could the fallen be again reconciled with the creator?
Third was there an intervention in the state of mankind by God?

Those questions are answered in the whole of the bible with the center figure being Jesus.
Without Jesus mankind would multiply, live and die to oblivion because of the fall.

With Jesus, all things start with Him, meaning a new creation being made of the old one.

Therefore, Jesus is the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning, in a new creation in which there is no end.

So life....I mean life without end....did not start with Adam, but with Jesus.

Had to set up the background in order to answer your question: "How do we know that Jesus was able to subdue vanity"?

Adam's mankind was lost from the beginning due to being made in the image of Gods, as gods. Meaning separate from God, as seperate entities existing as self.

Jesus on the other hand was born of the flesh but not of the spirit of Adam but the spirit of God directly, as in a virgin birth. Not tainted by the lure of vanity but above it as God.

Hence, mankind's salvation is in Him because He alone, as God, was able to subdue vanity with the righteousness of God.

The opening topic is about why had God forsaken Jesus. And the answer is clear when Jesus is the only one condemned to oblivion, but because He is the Son of God, finds that God forgives Him, which also means forgiving all humanity.

Jesus request for comfort, relief or rescue is met with silence, because He alone, of all mankind must suffer loss.

God's silence is an affirmative, meaning there is no rescue, relief or comfort.

I know, it is hard for many to believe it, let alone trying to understand it.


Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

i have no idea how this has anything to do with presuming what the god of the bible is...and what the god of the bible wants>>>waitasec

Well sec, have I not being making the point that in order to understand spiritual matters one must first be born of the spirit, as in born again?

The bible can be a confusing book, save the spirit of God give knowledge in understanding.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Basically, if God is real, and the story of Adam and Eve is true, then God purposely put Adam and Eve in their because he wanted Humanity to learn from our own mistake. He was the real reason why humanity fell.>>>Daviso452

And Jesus is the real reason why God Himself offered up Jesus as the sacrificial lamb, that God's own righteousness be given freely to all mankind via the condemnation of His son.

God Himself as spirit could not make atonement for us, but as like one of us, yes.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Daviso452]

And Jesus is the real reason why God Himself offered up Jesus as the sacrificial lamb, that God's own righteousness be given freely to all mankind via the condemnation of His son.

God Himself as spirit could not make atonement for us, but as like one of us, yes.

Blessings, AJ

I am not entirely convinced that Jesus was in fact the son of God. Heck, I'm not convinced there is a god. Is it okay if we swing this discussion into the existence of God?

 

[waitasec]

Well sec, have I not being making the point that in order to understand spiritual matters one must first be born of the spirit, as in born again?

The bible can be a confusing book, save the spirit of God give knowledge in understanding.

Blessings, AJ

the same knowledge and understanding that would lead people to do horrific acts in the name of their god...?

one wonders why the ambiguity? the ambiguity leaves plenty of space for excuses to explain away bad behavior.
no one argues if it's raining or not...

 

[waitasec]

why have thou forsaken the children of israel...?