My God Why have you forsaken me

[look3467]

apparently not in theocratic countries....>>>waitasec

Expected answer. Being that the only way to look at it is through the human understanding and not spiritual understanding.

You haven't yet learned to separate the two.

I mean you are looking at both as one, therefore, not being able to distinguish the difference between the two to see a spiritual significance.

Yes, in some countries the will is limited, but spiritually, no one can limit it except God.

Here's a verse to address that: Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You see, when a Muslim, a Buddhist or any other religious believing or non believing person gets Christ in their hearts, nothing will deter them from offering their will to God over that of mankind.

As if you hadn't heard of the Apostle Stephan? One case, but cases like that exist today.

Blessings, AJ

 

[idav]

faith is irrational?

Faith isn't always illogical but is likely to have a false premise.

 

[look3467]

Faith isn't always illogical but is likely to have a false premise.

Faith is the only vehicle, right or wrong, has been taken into consideration by the creator.
Hence grace?

One can not debate spiritual matters without faith in God period. Why is it that way?
Because humanity exists in a world of the flesh and thinks and behaves in the flesh.
The only separation from the flesh is the spirit.
So, to understand spiritual things, one must be a member o0f the spiritual kingdom of God by faith.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Daviso452]

Expected answer. Being that the only way to look at it is through the human understanding and not spiritual understanding.

You haven't yet learned to separate the two.

I mean you are looking at both as one, therefore, not being able to distinguish the difference between the two to see a spiritual significance.

Yes, in some countries the will is limited, but spiritually, no one can limit it except God.

Here's a verse to address that: Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You see, when a Muslim, a Buddhist or any other religious believing or non believing person gets Christ in their hearts, nothing will deter them from offering their will to God over that of mankind.

As if you hadn't heard of the Apostle Stephan? One case, but cases like that exist today.

Blessings, AJ

There is no evidence to suggest there is a difference between spiritual and human understanding. You require faith to believe in spiritual understanding. When you base reality on faith, you are prone to a conformation bias. How do you know this "spiritual understanding" isn't a conformation bias?

And for that matter, ever heard of the Forer Effect? Simply put, an event or text, which could have a plethora of meanings, is interpreted to be only one. Its like how some people derive different teachings from the same bible. One person could read the bible and think a passage means a specific thing. They are under Forer. Then, a person comes along and tells of a different interpretation of the same passage. If the first person accepts it as a possibility, then they have broken from Forer.

Does that make sense? My point is that things may have happened to you which may point to God, but in actuality could have been a multitude of other things.

 

[waitasec]

Faith isn't always illogical but is likely to have a false premise.

like buying tylenol at the store believing it's not going to kill you...

 

[waitasec]

Expected answer. Being that the only way to look at it is through the human understanding and not spiritual understanding.

You haven't yet learned to separate the two.

:biglaugh:
apparently this understanding hasn't done anything to get you out of the same boat we are all in...
good luck with your "understanding"

in fact i would argue that this understanding would have you burn the oars and let god do the rowing....

I mean you are looking at both as one, therefore, not being able to distinguish the difference between the two to see a spiritual significance.

religious belief is subjective...

Yes, in some countries the will is limited, but spiritually, no one can limit it except God.

funny, these are theocracies your talking about.

 

[idav]

like buying tylenol at the store believing it's not going to kill you...

Like not buying tylenol because you believe you deserve the suffering that god is inflicting on you.

 

[waitasec]

Like not buying tylenol because you believe you deserve the suffering that god is inflicting on you.

yup that too...

 

[Thief]

then you are willing to concede that faith is irrational?

A poor round about....

I would be willing to say dogma can be irrational....but not faith.
would YOU then be willing to confess your irrational pursuit?

You can't undo faith.
Dogma...sure...but not faith.

 

[muhammad_isa]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]An interesting anecdote..

Jesus (peace be with him) said, "The lover of God loves hardship."

And it is related of him that he once came upon a large group of worshipers who had shriveled up from worshiping, like worn-out water skins. "Who are you?" he asked. "We are worshipers," they answered. "Why do you worship?" he asked. They replied, "God put the fear of hell in us, and we were afraid." So he said, "It is incumbent upon God to save you from what you fear."

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Then Jesus passed on and came upon others who were even more worshipful. He asked, "Why do you worship?" and they replied, "God gave us a longing for paradise and what He has prepared there for His friends. That is what we hope for." So Jesus said, "It is incumbent upon God to give you what you hope for."

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Then he passed them by and came upon others who were worshiping and said, "Who are you?" They said, "We are lovers of God. We worship Him not out of fear of hell or longing for paradise, but out of love for Him and to His greater glory." So Jesus said, "You are truly the friends of God, and it is with you that I was commanded to live." And he resided among them.


"Every act is judged by its intention"
[/FONT]

 

[waitasec]

Faith is the only vehicle, right or wrong, has been taken into consideration by the creator.
Hence grace?

so you admit it then, religious ideology is just another excuse for good and or bad behavior...just like anything else...

 

[look3467]

so you admit it then, religious ideology is just another excuse for good and or bad behavior...just like anything else...

Good or evil is what choice is all about. Whithout the ability to judge, we wouldn't be as gods.
Blessing, AJ

 

[waitasec]

Good or evil is what choice is all about.

good and evil are subjective.

Whithout the ability to judge, we wouldn't be as gods.
Blessing, AJ

but we judge for ourselves, do we not?

yes it is subjective truth not an empirical truth.

 

[look3467]

good and evil are subjective.

but we judge for ourselves, do we not?

yes it is subjective truth not an empirical truth.

I'll agree with you that good and evil are subjective because of our abilities to make judgments.

Now, when knowledge of a spiritual nature is gained, our subjectivity is influenced by the spiritual touch, if you will, of a spiritual God.

Therefore, in my case, I relate all things to the spiritual influences which, via my life's experience and spiritual understanding gained, have allowed me to understand the wonderful works of God in behalf of all mankind, verses just a chosen few.

but we judge for ourselves, do we not?

As gods? Absolutely. But please understand that belief in God is not is not a requirement to having the ability to make judgements between what is might be deemed good or evil.

Evil is magnified though with having a belief in God.

Let me quote the following verse which I believe applies: Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Basically saying, which by the way is in tune with the bibles perspective on responsibility when a gift has been given one, that much more is expected by both God and man, being that the awareness factor is greater to the believer than the unbeliever.

So, the penalty for failed responsibility is doubled to the believer verses the unbeliever.

Ref: Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Being given light and instructions on God's desires and then rejecting it, would make Sodom and Gommorrha more tolerable then the one having been gifted.

So, yes, I stand firmly on my beliefs, as I believe I've being inspired, gifted with knowledge and understanding, to look at the world through God's eyes verses mans eyes.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Daviso452]

I would be willing to say dogma can be irrational....but not faith.
would YOU then be willing to confess your irrational pursuit?

You can't undo faith.
Dogma...sure...but not faith.

How is faith rational then? The way I see it is that faith is a person believing in something without evidence because they have come kind of connection with, or innate knowledge of, the higher power. Is that true?

If so, do you agree that humans are flawed and what we perceive is sometimes fake? All these people's connection with god may very well be a delusion created by their own minds. It's been proven to happen.

 

[idav]

How is faith rational then? The way I see it is that faith is a person believing in something without evidence because they have come kind of connection with, or innate knowledge of, the higher power. Is that true?

Rational doesn't have to do with wrong or right. It is easy to be rational and wrong if what you assume A to be is wrong.

 

[Thief]

How is faith rational then? The way I see it is that faith is a person believing in something without evidence because they have come kind of connection with, or innate knowledge of, the higher power. Is that true?

If so, do you agree that humans are flawed and what we perceive is sometimes fake? All these people's connection with god may very well be a delusion created by their own minds. It's been proven to happen.

You're using the wrong adverbs and adjectives....you're misleading yourself.
People do it all the time.

Humans are flawed?...no....we are what we should be.
Do we error?....yes....because we use the wrong adverbs and adjectives
and mislead ourselves.

True...most people believe in something greater, and do so for a variety of causes.
Some, fear death, and and the eternal darkness of the grave.
Some, fear hell and want to belong to something better.
Some do so because it makes sense.

6billion people will die in my life time...
All these copies of a form, designed to learn of this world....
all the while suspecting spiritual life....
and then we crumble into the grave....

THAT seems to be contrary belief...... and fake.

It is much more likely we are here to learn all we can...
then back to God we go.

 

[waitasec]

I'll agree with you that good and evil are subjective because of our abilities to make judgments.

Now, when knowledge of a spiritual nature is gained, our subjectivity is influenced by the spiritual touch, if you will, of a spiritual God.

subjectively speaking of course...

Therefore, in my case, I relate all things to the spiritual influences which, via my life's experience and spiritual understanding gained, have allowed me to understand the wonderful works of God in behalf of all mankind, verses just a chosen few.

subjectively speaking of course...

As gods? Absolutely. But please understand that belief in God is not is not a requirement to having the ability to make judgements between what is might be deemed good or evil.

no really? for realz?



you have yet been able to prove how it is possible that this is truth..

I relate all things to the spiritual influences which via my life's experience and spiritual understanding gained, have allowed me to understand the wonderful works of God in behalf of all mankind,

you know why? because it's your truth and yours alone...not all of mankind.

Evil is magnified though with having a belief in God.

Let me quote the following verse which I believe applies: Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Basically saying, which by the way is in tune with the bibles perspective on responsibility when a gift has been given one, that much more is expected by both God and man, being that the awareness factor is greater to the believer than the unbeliever.

So, the penalty for failed responsibility is doubled to the believer verses the unbeliever.

i understand you are responsible for what you know...but what you know is for yourself.

matthew 25: 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[waitasec]

Rational doesn't have to do with wrong or right. It is easy to be rational and wrong if what you assume A to be is wrong.

rationalized phobias are other examples of this...

 

[look3467]

you know why? because it's your truth and yours alone...not all of mankind.>>>waitasec

You know, you're absolutely right! But your forgetting one important issue, and that is the gift of choice.

It is the right of a god (of whom we are made image of) to choose our own belief.

Hence, choosing to believe and having faith in God is an option.

Blessings, AJ