My views on homosexuality

[Otherright]

I love how "experts" ignore the psychological markers as "choice" while physical markers are "genes". One wonders why mental health is still stigmatized. Psychological markers are as real as physical ones, and if a person has predisposition towards homosexuality (and I'm not calling homosexuality an illness, just a difference in predisposition), they will be more likely to lean that way. Period.



Really? If it's a choice and no genetic predisposition, why isn't everyone like your wife?

I have a hard time telling people not to participate in sex just because they're homosexual...what a severe punishment just because religion says so!

To each his own.

Homosexuality is not an issue for me. Gender doesn't play into the role of sexuality for me. Two of our (my wife and I) close friends are a gay couple and we spend a lot time with them. But genetically, it just isn't there. Predisposition isn't written in stone, it only opens possibilities.

I really can't believe I'm even having this argument, because I see absolutely no moral dilemma in homosexuality and no need for a homosexual to defend themselves to anyone.

Furthermore, I never said that a homosexual shouldn't engage in sex. I said the misuse of sex was bad, as it creates suffering.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

Furthermore, I never said that a homosexual shouldn't engage in sex. I said the misuse of sex was bad, as it creates suffering.

Is homosexual sex a misuse of sex?

 

[Otherright]

No, I commented on that earlier.

The misuse of sex is

forced or coerced sex: rape is an example of forced. Giving her a guilt trip because she isn't in the mood is coerced.

having sex with someone who can't consent: Children, animals, the infirmed elderly, etc.

using sex for power and control: "If you don't do this for me, or if you don't buy me this, then you don't get any."

These are all misuses of sex and will most definitely lead to suffering.

 

[Storm]

No, I commented on that earlier.

The misuse of sex is

forced or coerced sex: rape is an example of forced. Giving her a guilt trip because she isn't in the mood is coerced.

having sex with someone who can't consent: Children, animals, the infirmed elderly, etc.

using sex for power and control: "If you don't do this for me, or if you don't buy me this, then you don't get any."

These are all misuses of sex and will most definitely lead to suffering.

ITA.

BTW, I've been gone a long time, and this thread is 17 pages long. Would you mind summarizing your position/ questions?

 

[Otherright]

Is homosexual sex a misuse of sex?

Many Sages... you follow a dharmma path, you know exactly what that precept is and what is taught about it. This is a loaded response, but I replied anyway. I hope the answer I gave was to your liking.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

Many Sages... you follow a dharmma path, you know exactly what that precept is and what is taught about it. This is a loaded response, but I replied anyway. I hope the answer I gave was to your liking.

Yeah I know that dharmic paths say absolutely nothing about homosexuality, except that they constitute the third gender

 

[Otherright]

ITA.

BTW, I've been gone a long time, and this thread is 17 pages long. Would you mind summarizing your position/ questions?

Sure Storm. My original reply was:

There is no genetic marker on any chromosomal allele that is homosexual. There are psychological markers that create a genetic predisposition for homosexuality, but homosexuality is in and of itself, a choice. It isn't genetic. Predispositions are not written in stone. They can give preference, but do not force a resolution.

I've gone on to explain that my wife completely lacks sexual preference. She's dated men and women and is equally attracted to both. I have friends that are gay. Even a close couple who we spend a good deal of time with.

I've also said that I feel that there is no need for a homosexual person to take a moral stance on their position, nor should they have to justify that decision.

The only stance I take on sex, is that it should not be misused. Everyone thus far has ignored that, and has taken issue with my saying it is choice, not nature, although I have never said anything that can possibly be construed as "gay-bashing" or hate talk of any kind.

Everyone seems to put off by the idea that I'm saying its your choice, follow your path, and don't justify it to anyone. They are simply going nuts that I claimed it was choice. Maybe this is because they believe in Predestination and the idea that someone can chose their orientation is beyond scope. I don't know. But my saying this has definitely struck a nerve.

Currently, that's where we are in this thread. Consider yourself up to date.

 

[Otherright]

Yeah I know that dharmic paths say absolutely nothing about homosexuality, except that they constitute the third gender

Exactly right, which is why we should not take issue with homosexuality. The key to sex and the discussion of its morality lies in its misuse. That is where suffering is created.

 

[Storm]

Sure Storm. My original reply was:

There is no genetic marker on any chromosomal allele that is homosexual. There are psychological markers that create a genetic predisposition for homosexuality, but homosexuality is in and of itself, a choice. It isn't genetic. Predispositions are not written in stone. They can give preference, but do not force a resolution.

I've gone on to explain that my wife completely lacks sexual preference. She's dated men and women and is equally attracted to both. I have friends that are gay. Even a close couple who we spend a good deal of time with.

I've also said that I feel that there is no need for a homosexual person to take a moral stance on their position, nor should they have to justify that decision.

The only stance I take on sex, is that it should not be misused. Everyone thus far has ignored that, and has taken issue with my saying it is choice, not nature, although I have never said anything that can possibly be construed as "gay-bashing" or hate talk of any kind.

Everyone seems to put off by the idea that I'm saying its your choice, follow your path, and don't justify it to anyone. They are simply going nuts that I claimed it was choice. Maybe this is because they believe in Predestination and the idea that someone can chose their orientation is beyond scope. I don't know. But my saying this has definitely struck a nerve.

Currently, that's where we are in this thread. Consider yourself up to date.

Thanks.

Your stance is fair and reasonable, but you are quite mistaken that it's a choice. Just because there (probably) isn't a gay gene doesn't mean it's voluntary. There are other forms of hardwiring, and I assure you I never chose.

A couple of articles for you to peruse:
Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains (National Geographic)
What the Gay Brain Looks Like (Time magazine)

 

[Father Heathen]

I'll ask thrice; Do you choose what foods you find delicious or disgusting? Can you pick up a food you hate, stuff it in your mouth and at that very moment make the conscious decision that hence forth it shall taste delicious? No? then is it genetic? Also a no? So why would sexual desire be different?

 

[Otherright]

Thanks.

Your stance is fair and reasonable, but you are quite mistaken that it's a choice. Just because there (probably) isn't a gay gene doesn't mean it's voluntary. There are other forms of hardwiring, and I assure you I never chose.

A couple of articles for you to peruse:
Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains (National Geographic)
What the Gay Brain Looks Like (Time magazine)

Maybe, I feel it is choice. What's important to understand is that my feeling does not in any way reflect negatively of a person's orientation or how I interact with that person. And I may feel that is it choice because I see ourselves as the masters of our own destinies.

I realize that there are situations in which we don't chose, but perhaps I am enamored with the idea, that I chose what I am, how I am, how I act. Nobody makes that choice for me. I personally think more pride comes from the act of saying this is my decision, I chose this, and then you walk that path.

So, Storm, do you feel that you weren't in control of your path or your destiny? I don't mean this in a condescending way, I would genuinely like to know how you walked your path, if you don't mind sharing it?

Metta.

 

[Storm]

Maybe, I feel it is choice. What's important to understand is that my feeling does not in any way reflect negatively of a person's orientation or how I interact with that person. And I may feel that is it choice because I see ourselves as the masters of our own destinies.

I realize that there are situations in which we don't chose, but perhaps I am enamored with the idea, that I chose what I am, how I am, how I act. Nobody makes that choice for me. I personally think more pride comes from the act of saying this is my decision, I chose this, and then you walk that path.

So, Storm, do you feel that you weren't in control of your path or your destiny? I don't mean this in a condescending way, I would genuinely like to know how you walked your path, if you don't mind sharing it?

Metta.

We choose how we play the hands we're dealt. Gay, straight, etc. is in the cards, not the play. I didn't choose to be bi, or right-handed, or depressed. I chose how I reacted to those circumstances.

 

[darkendless]

Maybe, I feel it is choice. What's important to understand is that my feeling does not in any way reflect negatively of a person's orientation or how I interact with that person. And I may feel that is it choice because I see ourselves as the masters of our own destinies.

I realize that there are situations in which we don't chose, but perhaps I am enamored with the idea, that I chose what I am, how I am, how I act. Nobody makes that choice for me. I personally think more pride comes from the act of saying this is my decision, I chose this, and then you walk that path.

So, Storm, do you feel that you weren't in control of your path or your destiny? I don't mean this in a condescending way, I would genuinely like to know how you walked your path, if you don't mind sharing it?

Metta.

Why would anyone choose to cop the abuse homosexuals do? They have to endure condemnation everywhere they go often by either religious groups or simply homophobic people. It seems unreasonable that anyone would "choose" this, I know I wouldn't.

 

[Otherright]

I'll ask thrice; Do you choose what foods you find delicious or disgusting? Can you pick up a food you hate, stuff it in your mouth and at that very moment make the conscious decision that hence forth it shall taste delicious? No? then is it genetic? Also a no? So why would sexual desire be different?

Yes, I choose a like or dislike of a food based on taste, not on genetics. The operative word here is choice. Do I choose what foods? Yes, I choose which foods.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yes, I choose a like or dislike of a food based on taste, not on genetics. The operative word here is choice. Do I choose what foods? Yes, I choose which foods.

Then explain why anyone would choose not to find all foods delicious? Wouldn't everyone decide that healthy foods are delicious and that unhealthy foods are disgusting?

Sorry, but your stance lacks logic and must be dismissed.

 

[Storm]

Yes, I choose a like or dislike of a food based on taste, not on genetics. The operative word here is choice. Do I choose what foods? Yes, I choose which foods.

Not necessarily.

Broccoli is rich in a certain enzyme that only people with a very rare recessive gene can taste. I can and it's the nastiest damn thing I've ever tasted.

 

[Otherright]

Why would anyone choose to cop the abuse homosexuals do? They have to endure condemnation everywhere they go often by either religious groups or simply homophobic people. It seems unreasonable that anyone would "choose" this, I know I wouldn't.

Why would anyone choose to be atheist, especially in the South in the United States and endure the condemnation of Fundamentalists. You are asking a question of will. Do you have the will to stand by your conviction. You don't think religious preference is genetic do you?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why would anyone choose to be atheist, especially in the South in the United States and endure the condemnation of Fundamentalists. You are asking a question of will. Do you have the will to stand by your conviction. You don't think religious preference is genetic do you?

Sexual desire is not comparable to an ideological stance.

 

[Otherright]

Then explain why anyone would choose not to find all foods delicious? Wouldn't everyone decide that healthy foods are delicious and that unhealthy foods are disgusting?

Sorry, but your stance lacks logic and must be dismissed.

Because of choice. Some will taste good. Some will taste bad. You will chose not to eat the ones you find to taste bad.

You lost the argument based on your wording. You chose the word choice when you should've used something else. Its was easy to pick up the word choice and run with it.

And, I think you know you lost that round by hurling an insult toward me, something I will respond with by showing you the respect you didn't show me, by not insulting you. But if it is a question of logic, I aced it, both classes.

 

[Otherright]

Sexual desire is not comparable to an ideological stance.

Neither is food.