nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg admits and boasts about nato provoking Putin to invade

[lukethethird]

Baseless nonsense. Russia is not under threat of invasion. It's delusional to suggest a nuclear power is even remotely likely to be under genuine threat of invasion.

***STAFF EDIT***

"So, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.” Stoltenberg

Do you know who Stoltenberg is? he admitted to what I have been saying all along.



"Arestovych claimed that even without NATO enlargement, Russia would eventually try to take Ukraine, just many years later. Yet history belies that. Russia respected Finland’s and Austria’s neutrality for decades, with no dire threats, much less invasions. Moreover, from Ukraine’s independence in 1991 until the U.S.-backed overthrow of Ukraine’s elected government in 2014, Russia didn’t show any interest in taking Ukrainian territory.

It was only when the U.S. installed a staunchly anti-Russian, pro-NATO regime in February 2014 that Russia took back Crimea, concerned that its Black Sea naval base in Crimea (since 1783) would fall into NATO’s hands." Jeffrey Sachs

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"So, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.” Stoltenberg

Do you know who Stoltenberg is? he admitted to what I have been saying all along.



"Arestovych claimed that even without NATO enlargement, Russia would eventually try to take Ukraine, just many years later. Yet history belies that. Russia respected Finland’s and Austria’s neutrality for decades, with no dire threats, much less invasions. Moreover, from Ukraine’s independence in 1991 until the U.S.-backed overthrow of Ukraine’s elected government in 2014, Russia didn’t show any interest in taking Ukrainian territory.

It was only when the U.S. installed a staunchly anti-Russian, pro-NATO regime in February 2014 that Russia took back Crimea, concerned that its Black Sea naval base in Crimea (since 1783) would fall into NATO’s hands." Jeffrey Sachs

I really don't care what random quotes you pull that don't even address the things I am saying have to say. Pulling up quotes rather than taking the time to make a meaningful response to someone's claims is the most childish, anti-intellectual way to respond to an argument you can possibly have.

Address the arguments. I have already exposed these statements as lies. It wasn't a "US-backed overthrow". The new government was not "installed" by the US. These are lies that can be disproven, and have been, with tremendous ease.

Stop spreading imperialist propaganda.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"So, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite.”

"According to the U.S. government and the ever-obsequious New York Times, the Ukraine war was “unprovoked,” the Times’ favorite adjective to describe the war. Putin, allegedly mistaking himself for Peter the Great, invaded Ukraine to recreate the Russian Empire. Yet last week, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg committed a Washington gaffe, meaning that he accidentally blurted out the truth." Jeffrey Sachs

​

Stoltenberg’s revealing words:

"To repeat, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
When Prof. John Mearsheimer, I, and others have said the same, we’ve been attacked as Putin apologists. The same critics also choose to hide or flatly ignore the dire warnings against NATO enlargement to Ukraine, long articulated by many of America’s leading diplomats, including the great scholar-statesman George Kennan, and the former U.S. ambassadors to Russia Jack Matlock and William Burns.

Burns, now C.I.A. director, was U.S. ambassador to Russia in 2008, and author of a memo entitled “Nyet means Nyet.” In that memo, Burns explained to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the entire Russian political class, not just Putin, was dead-set against NATO enlargement. We know about the memo only because it was leaked. Otherwise, we’d be in the dark about it." Jeffrey Sachs, CN


I've been saying the same thing all along as Stoltenberg just admitted, and I too have been called a Putin apologist, go figure.

All you have to defend yourself is the quotes of pseudo-intellectual hacks and (yes) Putin apologists who agree with you. You're not engaging with the arguments, and you have yet to respond, meaningfully, to a single piece of the volumes of evidence I have presented that demonstrate that you have repeatedly lied. Going "LOOK! LOOK! Here's a quote from another tankie idiot who agrees with me!" is hardly compelling.

Try thinking for yourself and considering facts before swallowing this trash.

 

[lukethethird]

You don't have to like it.

Do you know who Stoltenberg is?

 

[lukethethird]

If I am a Putin apologist, then so is the secretary general of Nato because he said what I have been saying all along.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If I am a Putin apologist, then so is the secretary general of Nato because he said what I have been saying all along.

Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine, installed a puppet government that killed 14,000 people in the Donbas, that NATO tricked Putin into invading, that Russia has the right to determine whether or not separate states on their border can enter into military defensive treaties with other nations, and that NATO has plans to threaten Russian with invasion?

I'd like to see your sources.

Are you utterly incapable of a meaningful argument?

 

[Arthur Brain]

You don't have to like it.

Do you know who Stoltenberg is?

He's an advertising slogan for some sort of car isn't he?

Otherwise, everyone who has an ounce of familiarity with the past year and more knows fine well who he is and you're like a bloody Patrick Lancaster podcast.

 

[lukethethird]

Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine, installed a puppet government, killed 14,000 people in the Donbas, that NATO tricked Putin into invading, that Russia has the right to determine whether or not separate states on their border can enter into military defensive treaties with other nations, and that NATO has plans to threaten Russian with invasion?

I'd like to see your sources.

Are you utterly incapable of a meaningful argument?

The secretary general of Nato is a Putin apologist, he stated what I have said all along. Deal with it, although I am well aware you would rather stick to the narrative.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine, installed a puppet government that killed 14,000 people in the Donbas, that NATO tricked Putin into invading, that Russia has the right to determine whether or not separate states on their border can enter into military defensive treaties with other nations, and that NATO has plans to threaten Russian with invasion?

I'd like to see your sources.

Are you utterly incapable of a meaningful argument?

With far right conspiracy theorist's? Probably not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The secretary general of Nato is a Putin apologist, he stated what I have said all along. Deal with it, although I am well aware you would rather stick to the narrative.

I will ask again:

Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine, installed a puppet government, killed 14,000 people in the Donbas, that NATO tricked Putin into invading, that Russia has the right to determine whether or not separate states on their border can enter into military defensive treaties with other nations, and that NATO has plans to threaten Russian with invasion?

If he has said these things - the things that you have said - then he would be a Putin apologist. However, if all he said was:

"To repeat, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders."

Then no, because not only is that not the singular thing you have been saying, IT DOESN'T EVEN DISAGREE WITH WHAT WE ARE SAYING. We have been saying, repeatedly, that Putin invaded Ukraine BECAUSE HE WANTS TO DO SO BEFORE NATO PREVENT HIM FROM BEING ABLE TO CONQUER IT.

This is just more dishonesty. It's embarrassing

 

[Arthur Brain]

The secretary general of Nato is a Putin apologist, he stated what I have said all along. Deal with it, although I am well aware you would rather stick to the narrative.

Yeah, he's also an alien lizard who secretly has plans to turn the Western hemisphere into a galactic fish market, non profit of course...

 

[lukethethird]

I will ask again:

Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine, installed a puppet government, killed 14,000 people in the Donbas, that NATO tricked Putin into invading, that Russia has the right to determine whether or not separate states on their border can enter into military defensive treaties with other nations, and that NATO has plans to threaten Russian with invasion?

If he has said these things - the things that you have said - then he would be a Putin apologist. However, if all he said was:

"To repeat, he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders."

Then no, because not only is that not the singular thing you have been saying, IT DOESN'T EVEN DISAGREE WITH WHAT WE ARE SAYING. We have been saying, repeatedly, that Putin invaded Ukraine BECAUSE HE WANTS TO DO SO BEFORE NATO PREVENT HIM FROM BEING ABLE TO CONQUER IT.

That is plain stupid. Russia has been invaded more than once from armies coming through Ukraine, Ukraine was a red line all along. Russia doesn't want hostile armies and missiles stationed up against its borders, anybody knows that except you.

"Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine"

This is what you are best at, making up stupid arguments that no one made.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That is plane stupid. Russia has been invaded more than once from armies coming through Ukraine, Ukraine was a red line all along. Russia doesn't want armies and missiles stationed up against its borders, anybody knows that except you.

Considering that I have acknowledged this several times, explicitly, and my argument all along has been that it doesn't matter what Russia wants because Ukraine is a sovereign state with a right to determine their own military alliances, and as a nuclear power there is not a credible threat to Russia's sovereignty outside the mind of Putin and his apologists, I think that this post of yours is, indeed, "plane (sic) stupid". Considering Russia has INVADED AND ANNEXED UKRAINE, maybe there's a pretty damn good reason that there SHOULD be an army on Russia's border. Ever wondered why that might be? Because it probably wouldn't be to cross over that border and immediately trigger a global nuclear holocaust. Here's a clue: Russia had an army on Ukraine's border first.

And I absolutely LOVE the fact that you are using WW2 as an excuse, here. Did you know that a LOT of countries were invaded during world war 2? Quite a few, in fact. And yet, most of those countries seem to not have used that fact as a pretext to justify invading and annexing neighbouring territory. Funny that.

You are unbelievable. I'd say you're probably running communications for Putin, but I find it highly unlikely even he'd hire you with this poor performance.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine"

This is what you are best at, making up stupid arguments that no one made.

That's an argument YOU have made, and one of the reasons I call you a Putin apologist. Or, were you trying to dishonestly create the impression that I call you a Putin apologist purely because of your "Ukraine is a red line argument"?

Because, obviously, that would be a lie.

You seem to enjoy those.

 

[lukethethird]

That's an argument YOU have made, and one of the reasons I call you a Putin apologist. Or, were you trying to dishonestly create the impression that I call you a Putin apologist purely because of your "Ukraine is a red line argument"?

Because, obviously, that would be a lie.

You seem to enjoy those.

You made that argument up, You know Stoltenberg never stated that. You like twisting facts, it's what you do.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You made that argument up, You know Stoltenberg never stated that.

Which is my point. You make those arguments, and THOSE are the arguments that make YOU a Putin apologist, not HIM.

Do you really not understand this, or are you being obtuse?

You like twisting facts, it's what you do.

Says the guy who has been caught lying repeatedly.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am aware that you may require a bit more education in order to grasp the subtleties of this argument, so here is a very simple analogy;

Very Obvious Nazi: "I am not a Nazi, but I do happen to believe that Jewish people were over-represented in the banking sector in Weimar Germany. So, if you think about it, you can't really blame the German people for genociding them, and actually that was probably a Jewish plot anyway, and I think Germany has a right to expand into Europe due to their superior ancestral lineage, and the allied invasion of Germany was totally unjustified."

Normal Person: "Gee, you sure do sound like a Nazi."

Very Obvious Nazi: "Oh! So I'm a Nazi?! Well here's a quote from a significant Jewish figure who acknowledges that Jewish people WERE over-represented in the banking sector in Weimar Germany! So, since he has said the same thing I have, you must be calling HIM a Nazi, too! Checkmate, idiot!"

 

[Arthur Brain]

That is plain stupid. Russia has been invaded more than once from armies coming through Ukraine, Ukraine was a red line all along. Russia doesn't want hostile armies and missiles stationed up against its borders, anybody knows that except you.

"Oh yeah? The NATO secretary general has said that the US backed a coup in Ukraine"

This is what you are best at, making up stupid arguments that no one made.

Ukraine had denuclearized with supposed assurances that an invasion from Russia wouldn't happen. There was no tangible threat from Ukraine at all and there's no excuse for the despot's invasion whatsoever. Nobody wants war with Russia and you are in la la land.

 

[lukethethird]

Ukraine had denuclearized with supposed assurances that an invasion from Russia wouldn't happen. There was no tangible threat from Ukraine at all and there's no excuse for the despot's invasion whatsoever. Nobody wants war with Russia and you are in la la land.

Putin got played like a fiddle, Nato sucked Russia into a proxy war with the US, and Ukraine is paying the price because Ukraine is the battlefield. I don't expect you to understand, it doesn't follow the narrative that corporate media feeds you.

 

[Flankerl]

Right.
NATO sucked Muscovy into a war with Ukraine by not admitting Ukraine into NATO for the past 14 years.

How devious.