Near Death experiences to atheist

[9-10ths_Penguin]

that's just a polite way of saying it was delusional.

I disagree, but I don't feel like debating the point.

I don't think anyone would ever say it if something called love did not actually exist.... sure people lie about it, people get confused by it, but we think about it and talk about it because it does actually exist.

And this gets to another point: accepting these accounts of the supernatural are really a two-stage process:

- accepting that the phenomenon in question exists
- accepting that whatever happens really is an example of the phenomenon.

The same way that even if you believe love exists, you can still think that a particular person's "I love you" is a lie, even if you believe that psychics/angels/mediums/telekinesis/whatnot is real, it's still possible for this person to be lying to you when he says that he's seen that they're real.

 

[idea]

Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

I believe in an unbounded universe, with no real beginning, and no real end, in which everything exists.

Do you believe in a finite universe? don't like the multiverse theories? to each their own I guess.

 

[Me Myself]

Lets do something, you are all invited to describe my room right now in a way more detailed than the description apophenia got.

I am curious, so I let him be judge

 

[apophenia]

Let's go back to what you said:



Based on your account, something was limiting your sight distance... whether it was the radius of the curve, a crest in the road, fog, or whatever, you describe a situation where the combination of the speed you were going (whatever it was) and the available sight distance (however far you could see) were such that the minimum stopping sight distance at the speed you were going was farther than you could actually see.

If that was the case, then there would normally be all sorts of visual cues that you could pick up on and that would cause nervousness or discomfort. Whether that manifested itself as a voice in your head, butterflies, or something else, no supernatural explanation is needed. You have intuition about physics... congratulations; many people do.

You cannot accept it, because it is outside your preferred paradigm.

Simple.

 

[Me Myself]

I believe in an unbounded universe, with no real beginning, and no real end, in which everything exists.

Do you believe in a finite universe? don't like the multiverse theories? to each their own I guess.

Its kind of a yes or no question

 

[idea]

I disagree, but I don't feel like debating the point.



And this gets to another point: accepting these accounts of the supernatural are really a two-stage process:

- accepting that the phenomenon in question exists
- accepting that whatever happens really is an example of the phenomenon.

The same way that even if you believe love exists, you can still think that a particular person's "I love you" is a lie, even if you believe that psychics/angels/mediums/telekinesis/whatnot is real, it's still possible for this person to be lying to you when he says that he's seen that they're real.

yes, the only way to really know, is to experience it for yourself... you know love is real after you love someone... and of coarse, you can actually experience it all for yourself. That is what the scriptures / holy books are there for - you are not supposed to just read them, you are supposed to use them to experience the same things yourself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You cannot accept it, because it is outside your preferred paradigm.

Simple.

No, I can't accept it because I'm a transportation engineer who knows about how informal visual cues can influence driver behaviour.

You admitted that you didn't have stopping sight distance. Once you said that, no supernatural explanation for your intuition was necessary. There's nothing remarkable about a driver being uncomfortable when their speed exceeds the safe speed of the road.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

yes, the only way to really know, is to experience it for yourself... you know love is real after you love someone... and of coarse, you can actually experience it all for yourself. That is what the scriptures / holy books are there for - you are not supposed to just read them, you are supposed to use them to experience the same things yourself.

Funny... you said "yes", but your reply suggests that you didn't get my point at all.

 

[1137]

A whole lot of people think science has already explained it. That attitude will never reveal anything. And those same people dismiss anything which doesn't suit their projections and imaginations of 'what science will one day explain'. They assume that their arbitrary beliefs are science.

Ironically, they believe that they are not believers.

No, science backs the logic that explains it. Fully.

 

[1137]

I believe in an unbounded universe, with no real beginning, and no real end, in which everything exists.

Do you believe in a finite universe? don't like the multiverse theories? to each their own I guess.

I think you're describing multiworld, not just multi verse.

 

[Me Myself]

I know you'll just point out that I can't prove it (which I can't), but my friend drew a detailed and accurate picture of the room I was in when she 'visited' me.

No one has explained this yet.

 

[idea]

Funny... you said "yes", but your reply suggests that you didn't get my point at all.

my point was, you don't have to accept anything - you have to experience it.

 

[1137]

Lets do something, you are all invited to describe my room right now in a way more detailed than the description apophenia got.

I am curious, so I let him be judge

His friend did it, not a person on a forum.

You cannot accept it, because it is outside your preferred paradigm.

Simple.

Like you with science apparently.

Simple

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

my point was, you don't have to accept anything - you have to experience it.

And my point was that even the person who believes that psychics are real can still think that a particular person's psychic abilities aren't real.

 

[Me Myself]

His friend did it, not a person on a person on a forum

Had they visited the room?

 

[idea]

And my point was that even the person who believes that psychics are real can still think that a particular person's psychic abilities aren't real.

no arguments there.

 

[apophenia]

Originally Posted by apophenia
You cannot accept it, because it is outside your preferred paradigm.

Simple.

Like you with science apparently.

Simple

That is as arrogant and wrong as so many of your posts.

I have a great respect for science. For many years I was a regular subscriber to science magazines like New Scientist and Scientific American, just because of my scientific curiosity.

My favorite book of all time is 'Sociobiology : The New Synthesis' by Edward Wilson.

I have a curious and technically competent mind. I have designed and built computer systems when most people had never heard of personal computers (late 70s), and invented a system of audio compression before the world had heard of MP3.

Strangely enough, the idea for this audio compression was explained to me by magic shrooms in 1982. ( Poetic license. Although poetry is of course 'unscientific' LOL )

You are just projecting your half-baked view without any knowledge of me at all.

You see yourself as a warrior for logic and commonsense against a sea of deranged irrational believers, and you are projecting that on me.

For you, science and logic is just self-validation, and if anyone disagrees with you on anything, you choose to paint their face to match your personal biases and assumptions.

You assume that any experiences which seem to contradict your scientific model are symptoms of ignorance and/or delusion.

You are basically a fundamentalist using the validity of science as your sword and shield, and if that is challenged you cry " Anti Science !", like McCarthy cried "Communist !".

One day you may understand why you are this way.

 

[1137]

Haha you don't even slightly understand me, but you obviously don't understand objectivity either so that's ok

It's cute

 

[1137]

You see I believed much like the OP and yourself, but I've tried my hardest to commit to accepting objective truth over subjective if need be. And so I ended up where I stand now. Maybe one day you'll stop shrooming and and understand this, though the damage may be too deep.

Actually that reminds me of a thread I want to start later.

 

[Me Myself]

No one is psychically describing my room yet

How can you people explain that? Someone describing a room they veever been to nor heard a description, only visted it through astral projection.