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Maybe these people aren't mentally sane. Maybe they didn't die. You can't really know without being the person. The same could be said for the people claiming to see heaven. It's not proof of anything. For all I know it could have been a crazy, and bad dream. Regardless, this is not even close to being sufficient evidence to prove a god exists.Simple question: How can you explain the numerous reports of people that can see outside of their body when they die and come back to life? (To atheist)
Only George that I noticed.
I wish my scientific method was "I don't know so it's pointless to think about". I can also think of a few experiences I cannot fully explain or especially scientifically prove, but they way I work I can't let that lack of knowledge erase all other knowledge which supports a physical explanation. Just look at how awesome and crazy physics is today.
I disagree. But that's just subjective and silly to debate haha
I'm not a physicist, psychologist or neurologist. So it is actually pointless for me to speculate on the mechanism.
Well think about it. On standard scientific stuff (like chemistry) you never had to figure out the mechanism yourself. There were standard science books we all basically accept.
I agree with you that on anomalous experiences like yours and Apohenia's we can't really find satisfying answers in standard science books.
So, what I've been saying is there are 'scientists' or 'clairvoyants' or 'eastern sages' (or whatever term you prefer) that have studied things beyond our relatively familiar physical realm that explain the nature of the mechanism of the other realms to us.
Just like chemistry, we would never be able to figure out the mechanisms ourselves just by thinking. We accept the work of the chemistry masters that came before us.
So now the question becomes are these 'Vedic Science' and 'clairvoyant' masters worth listening to. It is very obscure stuff in the west and I might say basically ignored. I personally find that a great loss.
Now certainly science beyond the physical realm can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences. But enough anomalous events in the history of mankind should at least cause us to consider the work of these 'other' type of scientists.
I dont have bad blood tawrds you, but now I know for sure yu are getting defensive
You were pretending either me or apophenia are claiming a defnitive answer of what happened, when neither of us did and you nevr answered my question because yo started to get defensive on both of us for some weird reason.
Again:
Is it reasonably possible to guess the type of handles of a room you ve never been on and the positioning of mirrors of such room if you know the person who is in that room? guess it not by name dropping, but by drawing the place, and accurately depicting the place of the doors, the handles, tghe types of handles, the mirrors and the form size and placing of the mirrors?
Is it reasonably posible? simply from knowing the person in the room? to get all this right?
Its just a question.
So, what I've been saying is there are 'scientists' or 'clairvoyants' or 'eastern sages' (or whatever term you prefer) that have studied things beyond our relatively familiar physical realm that explain the nature of the mechanism of the other realms to us.
Just like chemistry, we would never be able to figure out the mechanisms ourselves just by thinking. We accept the work of the chemistry masters that came before us.
So now the question becomes are these 'Vedic Science' and 'clairvoyant' masters worth listening to. It is very obscure stuff in the west and I might say basically ignored. I personally find that a great loss.
Now certainly science beyond the physical realm can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences. But enough anomalous events in the history of mankind should at least cause us to consider the work of these 'other' type of scientists.
I've been told by doctors that using q-tips will cause wax to build up in you ears to the point where it'll need to be cleaned out. This has happened to me, I use q-tips and the wax builds up. But I can't see this happening, it's in my ear! So I have the connection between q-tip and wax build up (much like brain activity and consciousness) but I don't have 100% factual proof one controls the other. So I'm going to assume little faires are packing the ear wax in (hell maybe making me conscious too!) because I recently redid the garden and disturbed their home.
It's not just "Look, these guys studied it and say this, so you have to accept it".
No, they shouldn't. If they can't study something with any kind of rigorous methods, then they're neither scientists nor worthy of being considered.
Well think about it. On standard scientific stuff (like chemistry) you never had to figure out the mechanism yourself. There were standard science books we all basically accept.
I agree with you that on anomalous experiences like yours and Apohenia's we can't really find satisfying answers in standard science books.
So, what I've been saying is there are 'scientists' or 'clairvoyants' or 'eastern sages' (or whatever term you prefer) that have studied things beyond our relatively familiar physical realm that explain the nature of the mechanism of the other realms to us.
Just like chemistry, we would never be able to figure out the mechanisms ourselves just by thinking. We accept the work of the chemistry masters that came before us.
So now the question becomes are these 'Vedic Science' and 'clairvoyant' masters worth listening to. It is very obscure stuff in the west and I might say basically ignored. I personally find that a great loss.
Now certainly science beyond the physical realm can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences. But enough anomalous events in the history of mankind should at least cause us to consider the work of these 'other' type of scientists.
It sounds like you're confused about how science works.Just like chemistry, we would never be able to figure out the mechanisms ourselves just by thinking. We accept the work of the chemistry masters that came before us.
When you say that "science" beyond the physical realm "can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences", you've said all that you need to. The reliability of science depends on rigor. When you play fast-and-loose with the rules and lower the bar to let in the beliefs you want, you lose that reliability.So now the question becomes are these 'Vedic Science' and 'clairvoyant' masters worth listening to. It is very obscure stuff in the west and I might say basically ignored. I personally find that a great loss.
Now certainly science beyond the physical realm can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences. But enough anomalous events in the history of mankind should at least cause us to consider the work of these 'other' type of scientists.
I never said the above sentence. Let's try:
"Look these guys studied it and say this, so you might want to consider it"
I personally considered it and found it very valuable and believable.
There's really many uses of the words science and scientists and I don't really care about semantics. Fine, let's use some other words.
Are you saying: 'There's no rigorous way to observe or study alleged super-physical realms; hence they can't exist or even be considered to exist.'?
I think it's correct that mainstream science is rigorous and is agnostic on super-physical questions. But we don't have to limit everything we believe about existence to what mainstream science knows. We can consider information from sources not amenable to the rigorous scientific process in our beliefs on the structure of existence.
I think it's correct that mainstream science is rigorous and is agnostic on super-physical questions. But we don't have to limit everything we believe about existence to what mainstream science knows. We can consider information from sources not amenable to the rigorous scientific process in our beliefs on the structure of existence.
When you say that "science" beyond the physical realm "can not be done with the same rigorous experimental methods used in the physical sciences", you've said all that you need to.
The reliability of science depends on rigor.
When you play fast-and-loose with the rules and lower the bar to let in the beliefs you want, you lose that reliability.