Near Death experiences to atheist

[1137]

What basic things aren't we accepting?

This comes down to the consciousness debate, a debate where the physicalist view is leagues ahead. Basic things infer consciousness reliant on the brain. For example, the fact that brain injury changes one's personality or how forcing one's brain chemistry to change like with drugs changes consciousness. And these are facts, quantum physics is much sketchier territory.

 

[Alceste]

This comes down to the consciousness debate, a debate where the physicalist view is leagues ahead. Basic things infer consciousness reliant on the brain. For example, the fact that brain injury changes one's personality or how forcing one's brain chemistry to change like with drugs changes consciousness. And these are facts, quantum physics is much sketchier territory.

Who has rejected any of those propositions? Are you sure they haven't only rejected the suggestion that any of these phenomena adequately and thoroughly explain apophenia's experience (or any of mine)?

 

[1137]

Who has rejected any of those propositions? Are you sure they haven't only rejected the suggestion that any of these phenomena adequately and thoroughly explain apophenia's experience (or any of mine)?

I even agree, there are gaps, but we don't need a God of the gaps. I honestly don't know everyone's beef, I just pointed out there's multiple, supported, natural explanations out there for such experiences. Or at least the probability of us having one in the future is beyond probable. As we learn more scientific FACT won't just 360 and decide there's these astral realms and soul traveling hocus pocus.

 

[Me Myself]

No I've already said I believe something happened, something natural. I'm laughing at MM's inability to accept natural and supported explanations yet ability to easily accept a supernatural experience.

Which inability?

Again, you are telling me you can guess the types of handles of a room you ve never been to if you know the person there and also the location of the mirrors?

Its a yes or no question, can you or can you not?

I d also be interested in knowing if apophenia ever customized this features of the room and how much.

 

[Me Myself]

Who has rejected any of those propositions? Are you sure they haven't only rejected the suggestion that any of these phenomena adequately and thoroughly explain apophenia's experience (or any of mine)?

Tis is exactly what we are rejecting. Now he is saying something about god, and I can only wonder where did I or apophenia ever talked about god in this thread.

 

[Alceste]

I even agree, there are gaps, but we don't need a God of the gaps. I honestly don't know everyone's beef, I just pointed out there's multiple, supported, natural explanations out there for such experiences. Or at least the probability of us having one in the future is beyond probable. As we learn more scientific FACT won't just 360 and decide there's these astral realms and soul traveling hocus pocus.

Not counting George-ananda, have any of us actually suggested that the mechanism for these atypical experiences is god, free floating consciousness with no natural explanation, or the existence of a spiritual plane of existence?

I'm talking about me, me myself and apophenia, specifically. I feel like you might be misreading or misrepresenting the position that the experiences could be genuine and accurately recalled, but caused by a natural mechanism we do not yet understand.

 

[1137]

Not counting George-ananda, have any of us actually suggested that the mechanism for these atypical experiences is god, free floating consciousness with no natural explanation, or the existence of a spiritual plane of existence?

I'm talking about me, me myself and apophenia, specifically. I feel like you might be misreading or misrepresenting the position that the experiences could be genuine and accurately recalled, but caused by a natural mechanism we do not yet understand.

No and I never said otherwise. Which is why I was so confused everyone was so defensive. But considering the backlash at attempting to give a natural explanation....

 

[Alceste]

No and I never said otherwise. Which is why I was so confused everyone was so defensive. But considering the backlash at attempting to give a natural explanation....

Who is being defensive?

 

[1137]

Our pal Apophenia. Me myself was defensive for him for some reason. It's all irrelevant bad blood which is why it's disappointing.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Fair enough........we'll probably go around and around again on another thread

You're way better than most so-called Skeptics

I look forward to it.

Thank you.

And just for the record, I think it would be awesome if astral projection actually existed. I'd do it all the time.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I and Dr. Sabom were impressed. But as I pointed out before, my threshold for being impressed is lower than your 'never been reached yet' threshold.

That's because I start with the premise that Consciousness/Brahman/God is fundamental and no collection of physical atoms and electrical current can have a unified self-consciousness. The patient's normal waking consciousness is just as super-physical to me.

Ahhh, okay. That's good to know.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have always thought that when Atheists die they will see Christopher Hitchens lift them our of their grave then cast them into nothingness. Perhaps I am wrong

LOL I would love that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So... while riding down a steep hill and approaching a blind (and therefore likely sharp as well, right?) curve, you realized it would be a good idea to slow down? I'd say this is evidence that you have common sense, not that you have psychic abilities.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Let's go back to what you said:



Based on your account, something was limiting your sight distance... whether it was the radius of the curve, a crest in the road, fog, or whatever, you describe a situation where the combination of the speed you were going (whatever it was) and the available sight distance (however far you could see) were such that the minimum stopping sight distance at the speed you were going was farther than you could actually see.

If that was the case, then there would normally be all sorts of visual cues that you could pick up on and that would cause nervousness or discomfort. Whether that manifested itself as a voice in your head, butterflies, or something else, no supernatural explanation is needed. You have intuition about physics... congratulations; many people do.

And these are things a person wouldn't even realize they're doing, because our brains are so frigging efficient.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You cannot accept it, because it is outside your preferred paradigm.

Simple.

OR this person knows something about human experience and how our brains operate.

 

[apophenia]

Our pal Apophenia. Me myself was defensive for him for some reason. It's all irrelevant bad blood which is why it's disappointing.

Get real man.

I never suggested a god of the gaps. You know that, I know that, and those who have pointed out your disingenuous attacks on me know that.

Take a chill pill. Do some CBT. Get a grip.

I'm not going to bother with going through the thread and pulling out all the quotes where you make totally bogus claims about what I have said, or what I am implying, but there is a reason why a couple of very reasonable people have taken exception to your juvenile attacks on me. You are just spin doctoring.

Or maybe you think we are all just ganging up on you ? Threatened by your relentless illumination of our ignorance perhaps ? :areyoucra

Disappointing ? Now you're going all parental on us. Read some Eric Berne, the game you are playing is well documented.

Man, we are all so distressed to see that you are disappointed. How awful.

 

[Me Myself]

Our pal Apophenia. Me myself was defensive for him for some reason. It's all irrelevant bad blood which is why it's disappointing.

I dont have bad blood tawrds you, but now I know for sure yu are getting defensive

You were pretending either me or apophenia are claiming a defnitive answer of what happened, when neither of us did and you nevr answered my question because yo started to get defensive on both of us for some weird reason.

Again:

Is it reasonably possible to guess the type of handles of a room you ve never been on and the positioning of mirrors of such room if you know the person who is in that room? guess it not by name dropping, but by drawing the place, and accurately depicting the place of the doors, the handles, tghe types of handles, the mirrors and the form size and placing of the mirrors?

Is it reasonably posible? simply from knowing the person in the room? to get all this right?

Its just a question.

 

[Me Myself]

By the way Apophenia, did you change the handles while you stayed in he room? the handles she draw perfectly without ever being in the place?

 

[apophenia]

Tis is exactly what we are rejecting. Now he is saying something about god, and I can only wonder where did I or apophenia ever talked about god in this thread.

Why are you being so aggressive ?

Is it because we don't accept your insistence that near-death experiences are actually encounters with Yog-Sothoth ?

 

[Alceste]

Our pal Apophenia. Me myself was defensive for him for some reason. It's all irrelevant bad blood which is why it's disappointing.

Hm. It didn't seem defensive to me. It seemed like they just didn't think the explanations you offered were adequate.