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No Evidence for 1st Century Nazareth

godnotgod

Thou art That
In regard... to the Essene headquarters at Mount Carmel and Jesus being affiliated with the Essenian sect of Nazarenes in the region of Carmel, there is much supporting evidence. Indeed, it is quite clear that the headquarters of the entire Essene movement was Mount Carmel in Northern Israel, not Qumran in Southern Israel, and that Jesus was primarily associated with Carmel. Equally clear is the fact that the Northern Essenes in the region of Mount Carmel were called "Nazarenes". The fact that nearly every major event associated with the life of Jesus occurred in Northern Israel, is strong evidence that Jesus lived most of his life in Northern Israel. Only four events of Jesus' life occurred in Southern Israel (his birth in Bethlehem; his visit to the temple when he was 12; his baptism by John; and his final journey to Jerusalem) and each of those events is clearly described as occurring after making a long journey from his home in Northern Israel. Mount Carmel, the Essene-Nazarene headquarters, was in Northern Israel; Qumran, the Essene Monastery where John the Baptist lived (and where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered), was in Southern Israel. THERE IS SOLID CONSENSUS AMONGST SCHOLARS THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS FROM QUMRAN: the location on the Jordan river where tradition tells us John performed his baptisms is exactly where the Jordan river connects with the Dead Sea near Qumran, and everything we know about John matches up perfectly with what is known about the Qumran Essenes. When Jesus came to be baptized by his cousin John, The New Testament and other manuscripts tell us that John did not recognize Jesus; obviously, if Jesus and John lived together at Qumran, they would have recognized each other. This is strong evidence that Jesus was a Northern Essene associated with Mount Carmel, not a Southern Essene from Qumran. In Mystic Christianity, by Yogi Ramacharaka, we read:

"Jesus came unannounced to, and unrecognized by John.... Although the two were cousins, they had not met since childhood, and John did not at first recognize Jesus. The traditions of the Mystic Orders further state that Jesus then gave to John the various signs of the Mystery Schools to which they both belonged, working from the common signs up until Jesus passed on to degrees to which John had not attained, although he was an eminent high-degree Essene. Whereupon John saw that the man before him was no common applicant for Baptism, but was, instead, a highest-degree Mystic Adept, his superior in rank and unfoldment."

While the New Testament does not include all of the esoteric information above, it does declare that John -- the Qumran Baptist -- DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIS COUSIN JESUS.

The fact that Jesus was not from Qumran DOES NOT MEAN HE WAS NOT AN ESSENE. Often, when orthodox Christian scholars are attempting to prove that Jesus was not an Essene, they point out certain differences between the teachings of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls. (They often point out that Jesus' doctrine is less strict in some matters than the 'Community Rule' of the Qumran Dead Sea Scrolls; by doing so, they think they are proving that Jesus was not an Essene.) But they are missing the point: QUMRAN WAS ONLY ONE OF MANY DIVERSE ESSENE COMMUNITIES. Whereas Qumran was a strict monastic commune for celibate men, some other Essene communities -- such as Mount Carmel and the related Nazarene stronghold of Nazareth -- were for entire families and naturally had more relaxed rules. The teachings of Jesus were more a product of the Northern Essene environment of Mount Carmel than Qumran. I quote from Peter Lemesurier's The Armageddon Script:

"Admittedly, Jesus was often considerably more forthcoming (less secretive) than the typical Qumran Essene, but then it should be remembered that he was not a Qumran Essene. Not only was he a 'Carmelite' or 'Nazarene', a product of the Essene movement's necessarily 'ecumenical' headquarters-group, but he was the intended messianic Priest-King, the ultimate 'Interpreter of the Law'.... As such, his rank was superior by far to the rest of the Essene leadership, even to the original Teacher of Righteousness. Consequently, he was free to interpret the Law and the Prophets in his own way and to whom he pleased, as the spirit guided him."

Thus, the differences between the teachings of Jesus and the Qumran Essenes are due to:

Jesus was raised at the more ecumenical, family-oriented Essene community at Mount Carmel; and,

The Dead Sea Scrolls, wonderful as they are, were written by Essenes who were prayerfully preparing for the coming of the Universal Messiah, the Prince of Peace. Obviously, once the Messiah of the Universe came to earth, the words that came out of his mouth were far transcendant of even the best of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

When the holy family returned from Egypt after Herod's death, we are told they settled in Nazareth. Nazareth is very near Mount Carmel, the headquarters of the entire Essene movement. However, in those days, there was no town called "Nazareth"; rather, it was simply a cooperative village of Essene "Nazarenes". We read in The Armageddon Script:

"... historical evidence that it (Nazareth) existed at the time is entirely lacking. The tradition almost certainly goes back to the fact that the family were members of the Nazarene sect of the Essenes. This group seems to have become the dominant one on Carmel, to the point where the word 'Nazarene' came to be applied to the Northern Essenes in general. It is possible, of course, that the Essenes had a camp in the vicinity of the modern Nazareth."

Thus, the term "Jesus of Nazareth" was originally "Jesus the Nazarene", and a "Nazarene" is a "Northern Essene" associated with Mount Carmel. Which is why in the New Testament Book of Acts, the early Christians' are referred to as "the sect of the Nazarenes."

Having accepted Jesus as the Messiah they had been waiting for, the Essene-Nazarenes became the first Christians. These first followers of Jesus were still called "Essene Nazarenes" or simply "Nazarenes". They were not called "Christians" (which means "Messianists" or "followers of the Messiah") until many years later.

Introduction to the Ancient Essenes and the Modern Essene Church of Christ
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Obviously our friend has the utmost contempt for anything that remotely resembles a rational interpretation of history.

There's no need to review the evidence if you're just making stuff up. His fantasies can't even be anticipated by someone even partially aquainted with the historical evidences.... we're discovering now, not just with Nazareth, but Essenes, the life and teachings of Jesus, and everything else. Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

It's abundantly obvious that our friend has not examined anything that he's talking about -- he's just been convinced by some idiotic website. No rational person can be wrong about EVERYTHING that they talk about - surely if he's studied anything he'd happen upon at least one reliable source.
I just looked at the website he was posting. One of the pieces of evidence is a book written by Edgar Cayce. It is about as good of a source as the book on Jesus written by Sylvia Brown. But hey, they're psychics, they must know what they are talking about :facepalm:
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I just looked at the website he was posting. One of the pieces of evidence is a book written by Edgar Cayce. It is about as good of a source as the book on Jesus written by Sylvia Brown. But hey, they're psychics, they must know what they are talking about :facepalm:

Yeah, I still don't get why lies can't be made interesting.

They are deceiving incredibly gullible people - that's why they might be lazy and uncreative in their fabrications. Just a thought.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
:banghead3
In regard... to the Essene headquarters at Mount Carmel and Jesus being affiliated with the Essenian sect of Nazarenes in the region of Carmel, there is much supporting evidence.

Yes. Mickey Mouse, Daffy Duck, and Wile E. Coyote.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
I just looked at the website he was posting. One of the pieces of evidence is a book written by Edgar Cayce. It is about as good of a source as the book on Jesus written by Sylvia Brown. But hey, they're psychics, they must know what they are talking about :facepalm:

That was never the point, of course. Though I did not quote anything from the site in question in regards to Cayce, my understanding is that his insights were pretty accurate, and it is for this reason that he is held in high esteem.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Yeah, I still don't get why lies can't be made interesting.

They are deceiving incredibly gullible people - that's why they might be lazy and uncreative in their fabrications. Just a thought.

Fabrications? You mean like that a city called Nazareth existed at the time of Jesus, though no such evidence exists which points to the existence of such a place? That kind of fabrication? Just a thought.:beach:
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
:banghead3

Yes. Mickey Mouse, Daffy Duck, and Wile E. Coyote.

As I understand it, they all lived in the mythical city of Nazareth at one time in Never-Never land, somewhere between Oz and Nod. They enjoy a brief mention in the Bible. Something about 3 Wise Men from the East getting stoned and madly pursuing some star in the heavens via of The Good Ship Lollipop. Suckers!:yes:
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
I just looked at the website he was posting. One of the pieces of evidence is a book written by Edgar Cayce. It is about as good of a source as the book on Jesus written by Sylvia Brown. But hey, they're psychics, they must know what they are talking about :facepalm:

Sure, but did you read the CONTENT of my post? What is your opinion re: such content?
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Sure, but did you read the CONTENT of my post? What is your opinion re: such content?

My opinion should be clear already. The research you've done is shoddy, that is if one can call it research at all. You have no real evidence besides those who have no idea what they are talking about which is evident from the fact that they need to rely on psychics to bake up their failing story. That and your opinions are only wishful thinking at best. Not to mention that you avoid any substance as your position simply can't hold itself up.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
My opinion should be clear already. The research you've done is shoddy, that is if one can call it research at all. You have no real evidence besides those who have no idea what they are talking about which is evident from the fact that they need to rely on psychics to bake up their failing story. That and your opinions are only wishful thinking at best. Not to mention that you avoid any substance as your position simply can't hold itself up.

Excuse me, but I am merely asking if you simply followed the author's logic contained within the post I made.

Excuse me, but as I stated, I did not post any reference or information regarding psychic truths. You are the one making an issue of it. It has nothing to do with the point I am making. Cayce's testimony is only an augmentation to what is already accepted by mystics as valid.

Understanding is not via of historical facts alone. There are many things the Jesus of the Greek NT said which are mystical in nature, statements left over which are actually remnants of the mystical Yeshua. For example:

"Before Abraham was, I AM".

The only story that is failing here, fallingblood, is the orthodox one, which claims a 'city of Nazareth' when no such place has been found to exist.

Sorry, but it is YOUR story that cannot hold up to scrutiny, and not just on this account, but on so very many as to render it fiction, nay, poppycock!

Or do you fail to understand the difference between fiction and reality?
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Nazareth was actually a town in the sand dunes of Neptune, presided over by Lord H. P. Dumpty III.

That's why your evidence leads you to believe that Nazareth did not exist. It wasn't on earth!
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
No, no. In haste I misread my notes.

Nazareth is the name of the bar in Spaceballs where Barf and Lone Star ate. It was dissevered by Booker T. Washington in the Dead Sneeze Tolls written on the back of the Constitution. Unfortunately, when the duplicates were made they only copied the front and not the back of the original document. So it was buried under Snoopy's doghouse for 200 years.

That's why you think that it's fabricated. The Dead Sneeze Tolls are closely guarded by the Fatty Can and you have to be on a waiting list for 10 years before you can get in to the library, and the Sneeze Tolls are written in glitter by an 8 year old girl on construction paper. The Fatty Can does not allow you to take notes while you're there, so you have to memorize what you can. That's why there's conflicting evidence about Nazareth: there's simply not much chance that every reader will remember the same thing, especially when the Scrolls are written in Japanese. And if you read Japanese, they only show you copies of the ancient alien language C-3PO given to us 4 million years ago by the being Hugh Sophagus.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
step away from the ketboard my friend lol

sometimes its just not worth it.

definition of insanity, you know over and over and over again with the same results
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
step away from the ketboard my friend lol

sometimes its just not worth it.

definition of insanity, you know over and over and over again with the same results

Then every person who has ever owned a factory is insane.

Besides, you've incorrectly remembered the "definition:"

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” –Albert Einstein.

The key is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I don't expect different results, I just want to have as much fun as I can with the results that I get.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
Then every person who has ever owned a factory is insane.

Besides, you've incorrectly remembered the "definition:"

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” –Albert Einstein.

The key is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I don't expect different results, I just want to have as much fun as I can with the results that I get.

I see. So you are addicted to one of the 3 lower centers of consciousness, that of Sensation. It is, unfortunately, like a drug, wherein one requires greater and greater amounts of the stuff in order to be satiated. The other 2 lower centers, those of Power and Security, work hand in hand with the third.

We are not here to entertain your fancies. If you are not entertained, then your tastes have become jaded, and you need to go to Las Vegas for a Grand Fix.

Bye
:D
 

IsmailaGodHasHeard

Well-Known Member
I didn't advise you on anything.

And you're NOT following "generally accepted" ideas.

Perhaps what you say is all over the internet.

Spam is rarely true. You're embarrassing yourself.

EDIT: It doesn't matter if I'm the only one who is throwing a "red flag." The point is, you're too lazy to bother and see if what you believe is true. I've already provided two examples of "Nazareth" from the Talmud. The thing is, with idiots who repeat what they've read on the internet don't check their facts and pass it on to the next idiot who doesn't check, you just have a bunch of idiots repeating what they haven't checked. You get the point.

Also, the Talmud is massive. One or two references to Nazareth are quite easy to miss. Especially if you're too lazy to look.
It is wrong to call names.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I see. So you are addicted to one of the 3 lower centers of consciousness, that of Sensation. It is, unfortunately, like a drug, wherein one requires greater and greater amounts of the stuff in order to be satiated. The other 2 lower centers, those of Power and Security, work hand in hand with the third.

We are not here to entertain your fancies. If you are not entertained, then your tastes have become jaded, and you need to go to Las Vegas for a Grand Fix.

Bye
:D

Booga Booga
 
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