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no sex? no food!

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
The numbers are high in the West because we actually count rapes committed by husbands against their wives. Those are by far the majority.

I am not talking about the counted number, I am talking about researches showing that females find it useless to report such crimes...

And this is a western problem related to the culture of encouraging having a drunken nations during the weekends...
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Not all women who are raped are drunk or having a "good time".

Not sure what this statement has to do with violence against women...
 

twinmama

Member
Oh but didn't you know....in **certain** countries there is no domestic abuse or pedophilia or rapes - or STDs or HIV! And certainly no gays.

Who wants to move ? Or at least send their daughters to be safe there?
:cover:

(Here in Scandinavia rapes have increased during couple of last year but it would be totally politically incorrect for me to say who are the men raping. Raping even mothers in front of their children.)

-----------------------------

So...no comment regards to Aisha?
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
I am not talking about the counted number, I am talking about researches showing that females find it useless to report such crimes...

And this is a western problem related to the culture of encouraging having a drunken nations during the weekends...

Yeah, it is pretty much useless for a wife to report her husband for rape. The rate of successful prosecution is very low. It is worth noting, though, that in the cases of rapes that ARE reported, at least it is the rapist who is tried, not the victim. Unlike in countries that have attempted to write "Islamic law" into the laws of the state.

BTW, don't you know, it is very difficult for a drunken man to get and maintain an erection. There's not that much relationship between social alcohol consumption and rape. You might be thinking of social alcohol consumption and consensual sex that one or both of the parties involved regret in the morning, but that's something else entirely.

The majority of rapes in the West are committed by husbands or boyfriends against their wives or girlfriends. It seems the husbands of Afghanistan are not so different from the husbands of the West if a politician can win their vote by giving them the legal right to rape their wives. (In the West, we include "forced sex" in the category of rape, generally speaking).
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
you are Canadian too. what's this? are we having some Canadian invasion on internet?

i can relate with your reaction. even though i would not refer you as i speak about Western governments and i mention that i do not think governments represent citizens, i simply won't stop bringing it up. this is part of reality and source of wars of last decade. maybe for some people this is news but for us it is not. USA has been supportive of some other things. PKK in my naiton is one of them. we can feel sad and sorry for Afhan women together, seriously we can. but i can not stop till it is over. soon you'd see more wars, my friend. many nations would get in war soon. Turkey, Iran and Syria. you'll see. forcing women to sexual relationship and giving no food in case she refuses.....it is just sick!! i mean...i really can not find words for it because i do believe sexuality is fruit of love, for God's sake!! it is a result of love between two, not the reason why women exist. of course i can tell how i feel and how i feel could not be different from how you feel. i am more compassionate to animals than how they treat women. but i do not want to say this kind of stuff anymore. i do not want to take one detail out of this mess and cry over it. that mess contains much more worse than this and that mess want us to talk about wrong doings of Muslims. i am not saying they are doing right by forbidden women to eat. you know it. but i am not willing to serve the ones who wants to end Muslims in Afghanistan. i feel extremely sad for afhan people. not just for women. for old people, for children...because they are either victims of Taleban or foreign troops. noone really cares for this people. NOONE! everyone runs after his own desire and these poor people are like some kind of football they play with. this is a terrible destiny they are facing and even though i can relate with reasonable invitations, i just can not take one detail as the most important issue. behavour of Western citizens is like cutting arms of a bad tree. do you know that story? there is a tree that gives poisonous fruits and people cuts arms of tree all the time. as they cut tree, it becomes stronger and bigger. so there is more poison. noone manages to figure out what to do. at last someone prevents water to reach its roots and tree dies. talking about human rights in Afghanistan is not going to eliminate the source of evil. but OK, we can feel sorry together but i would not stop talking about it till it ends. i am sorry. nothing really personal.


Alceste answered it perfectly for me.

But the only one thing I disagree with what you said is how you tend to lump all "Western troops" together. We are not all the United States. I can't speak for other countries, but Canada does take care to avoid civilian casualities.

At the beginning of the war, Canada used to hand over its prisoners to the Afghan Army until they found out that the prisoners were being tortured by the Afghan Army. So we started keeping the prisoners and treating them more humanely. The main role of the Canadian Forces is to rebuild towns and protect civilians in the Kandahar area.

And sure, our own country isn't perfect. But unaffiliated organizations that do monitor human rights find Afghanistan to be in serious shambles. There is no conspiracy here to destroy Muslims. If there was, why would Canada - and other Western nations - accept so many of these refugees into our own borders and protect them? We want Afghans to have a better quality of life. We want little Afghani girls to go to school and we want better treatment for Afghani women. Our country may not be perfect, but Afghanistan has more problems than just about any other country.

We want to train their military so they can protect themselves. And it's not as if we're there to stay forever. Canada is going to withdraw its forces in 2011.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
(Here in Scandinavia rapes have increased during couple of last year but it would be totally politically incorrect for me to say who are the men raping. Raping even mothers in front of their children.)

I don't know how true or accurate the claims are, but I've read that some European nations are seeing an increasing problem with Muslim immigrants raping local women simply for not wearing the hijab. I know Australia had riots a few years ago over people getting attacked on the beach for wearing swimsuits.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
I don't know how true or accurate the claims are, but I've read that some European nations are seeing an increasing problem with Muslim immigrants raping local women simply for not wearing the hijab. I know Australia had riots a few years ago over people getting attacked on the beach for wearing swimsuits.

While certainly ghastly, if found to be true, I think this is more the exception than the rule. Not that it excuses it in any way, of course.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Discussions went completely out of topic, that an objective healthy discussion is not expected.

However I only chosen to post to ask about this argument:


Y

BTW, don't you know, it is very difficult for a drunken man to get and maintain an erection. There's not that much relationship between social alcohol consumption and rape. .


Is this really your belief?!
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Is this really your belief?!

Well the scientific method calls you:

Hypothesis: A man cannot get an erection while drunk. Or at least, have it difficult to maintain.

Materials/Apparatus:

- A Case of 24 of Molson Canadian
- Several nudie magazines

Method:

On a Friday night, sit back and enjoy...

Results:

*For you to fill in once you have completed the experiment*

Conclusion:

*For you to fill in once you have completed the experiment*
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Well the scientific method calls you:

Hypothesis: A man cannot get an erection while drunk. Or at least, have it difficult to maintain.

Materials/Apparatus:

- A Case of 24 of Molson Canadian
- Several nudie magazines

Method:

On a Friday night, sit back and enjoy...

Results:

*For you to fill in once you have completed the experiment*

Conclusion:

*For you to fill in once you have completed the experiment*


What make this research goes wrong is assuming that those zillions of guys going out every weekend to 'have fun' are "drunk" according to the same definition of "drunk" in the Case of 24 of Molson Canadian!
 

.lava

Veteran Member
Alceste answered it perfectly for me.

But the only one thing I disagree with what you said is how you tend to lump all "Western troops" together. We are not all the United States. I can't speak for other countries, but Canada does take care to avoid civilian casualities.

and as i said earlier (somewhere) i do not have info on Canada. but i do know Canadians are not Muslims. our troops are in Afghanistan too. but they are Muslims and they show respect mosques and they would naturally understand needs of Muslim people.

Western troops...i know how you feel. i personally do not have any problem with you (yet). but some people would treat or talk to us Muslims as if we are just one person and as if we are OK for this kind of injustice JUST BECAUSE WE ARE MUSLIMS!! so take a look at the other side you're not very familiar with then come up and talk to me about how i should speak.

At the beginning of the war, Canada used to hand over its prisoners to the Afghan Army until they found out that the prisoners were being tortured by the Afghan Army. So we started keeping the prisoners and treating them more humanely. The main role of the Canadian Forces is to rebuild towns and protect civilians in the Kandahar area.

our troops are aslo in health care and rebuilding houses. but as i said, we are Muslims and it is our duty to help our brothers and sisters. Muslims would not want non-Muslims wak around in their land with guns in their hands because they would not trust them. but fine, i do know there are people who has good intentions but you must see there is a war and this war is between Muslims and non-Muslims.

And sure, our own country isn't perfect. But unaffiliated organizations that do monitor human rights find Afghanistan to be in serious shambles. There is no conspiracy here to destroy Muslims. If there was, why would Canada - and other Western nations - accept so many of these refugees into our own borders and protect them? We want Afghans to have a better quality of life. We want little Afghani girls to go to school and we want better treatment for Afghani women. Our country may not be perfect, but Afghanistan has more problems than just about any other country.

that's the where i see hypocracy and NO, I AM NOT CALLING YOU ONE, so do not be mad at me right away. Afghan people were suffering for years. why now? why did your super heros wait to go there till USA (and some others) start to kill Muslims?

We want to train their military so they can protect themselves. And it's not as if we're there to stay forever. Canada is going to withdraw its forces in 2011.

what is it? some kind of charity? train their military? what would your nations gain in return? don't tell me nothing, please.

no worries, nobody's perfect.





.
 

Stellify

StarChild
Shia, I do not think it is fair or accurate to say that the West has more rapes than other parts of the world. I think there are too many factors to consider.
For instance, there are many cases in the States (sadly) where a girl might consent to sex, but then regret it later either because she got into trouble with her family (pregnancy or they disapprove of sexual activity), or because she had been under the influence of drugs...so she will falsely call "rape" on the man (usually) she slept with, and he'll be charged as a sex offender.
Also, here in the States women can report things as sexual harassment/rape that women in other countries can't report at all, because it's not considered illegal there (as others have pointed out already).

Where did you get your information from that gave you those statistics, if I may ask?

On the subject of whether or not alcohol can make erections difficult for men:
If a man is drunk, it can most certainly give him erectile dysfunction. This becomes more and more problematic the older a man is.
However, if they have only consumed a little bit of alcohol, then it can, but doesn't always, have such an effect.

 

.lava

Veteran Member
just for the record;

no Muslims in Afhan land would be happy to have non-Muslim soldiers. that includes women as well. as it happened before, this thread would eventually turn into a thread that opposes Islam the religion. see? this organizations do not want to help suffering people of Afghanistan they in fact want to 'save' them from our religion Islam. therefor Western troops are not trustwrothy.

once upon a time there was this group of men who were supported by USA. they were Muslims in name alone. let me tell you why...

1-for forcing innocent farmers to raise ophium.
2-for acting like owner of land and people.
3-for cooperating with USA and sharing dirty money that comes from ophium business.
4-for poisoning thousands of people all over the globe.

are these men still exist? maybe in the government of Afghanistan. maybe these are the guys who still work for USA and making this kind of laws by command of USA. can you tell otherwise for sure?

and there is this Taleban issue. do you think all male population of Afghanistan is Taleban. do you really think any Muslim who fight agaist USA is terrorsit? do you even know the difference between Mujahideen and terrorist? i am afraid for you they are one and the same. for Muslims they are opposites. who knows maybe real Taleban took its place in government and USA troops are actually killing Muslim heros who fight against non-Muslims who's breaking down mosques, who's killing civilians like flies...so-called organizations who claim to be there to help poor people?? as i said, they are not there to help people, they are there to change people and helping is their cover to fool everyone.

The President of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai has been told by the country's Islamic council to stop foreign aid groups from converting locals to Christianity.
The influential council of Islamic clergy and ulema (scholars) made the warning in a statement during a meeting with Karzai on Friday in which it also called for the reintroduction of public executions, which have not taken place since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.
"The council is concerned about the activities of some ... missionary and atheistic organs and considers such acts against Islamic sharia (law), the constitution, and political stability," the council said in its statement.


Muslim clerics warn Afghanistan president against missionaries



The region is home to the largest number of "unreached people groups," the term mission groups use for ethnic populations that have never heard the New Testament message (from the Bible), says a report in the Washington Post.
Since getting visas and entering these countries as missionaries is difficult, these "aid workers" from countries like the U.S., Britain, Germany and Australia plan to enter Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu countries using visas identifying them as "secular workers." [SIZE=+1]In most of the countries situated in this region, including Pakistan, there are laws against proselytising -- trying to convert others to Christianity.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
More missionaries for India, Pakistan, Afghanistan: report


A military chaplain was shown delivering a sermon to other soldiers, "telling soldiers that, as followers of Jesus Christ, they all have a responsibility "to be witnesses for him". The special forces guys -- they hunt men basically. We do the same things as Christians, we hunt people for Jesus. We do, we hunt them down."

Al Jazeera said the footage was shot about a year ago by Brian Hughes, a documentary maker and former member of the US military who spent several days in Bagram.

TV said "in other footage captured at Bagram, Sergeant Jon Watt, a soldier who is set to become a military chaplain, is seen giving thanks for the work that his church in the US did in getting Bibles printed and sent to Afghanistan."
"I also want to praise God because my church collected some money to get Bibles for Afghanistan. They came and sent the money out," he is heard saying during a Bible study class.

"They weren't talking about learning how to speak Dari or Pashto, by reading the Bible and using that as the tool for language lessons," Hughes said.

"The only reason they would have these documents there was to distribute them to the Afghan people. And I knew it was wrong, and I knew that filming it … documenting it would be important."


WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY, MUSLIMS, ISLAM, BALKANS, CAUCASUS [ US denies missionary activities of soldiers in Afghanistan ]







.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
what is it? some kind of charity? train their military? what would your nations gain in return? don't tell me nothing, please.
.

The idea is to build a pipeline from the Caspian Sea, through Afghanistan, to Europe. What the West gets in return is that the corporations who control our governments (in a complicated way) don't need to do business with Russia, which at the moment can impose whatever fees it likes for the use of its pipelines and uses access to ME fossil fuels as a political bargaining chip from time to time.

This can't be done unless the locals stop blowing it up, and we seem to think the best way to make this happen is to train up the Afghanistan army so they and the anti-pipeline crowd can shoot each other instead of us shooting at them, which is bad for our PR.

The reason for invading Iraq is that Bush thought there was a whole ****load of oil there. There's really not much more to it than that .

Believe me, although a slight majority of Westerners (including virtually all mainstream Western journalists) seem to think it's about spreading "freedom" (as insane as it is to think you can spread "freedom" by dropping bombs on people), there are also quite a few of us who understand the purpose of these wars is for the US and its allies to gain control of ME fossil fuels, and to gain a foothold in a strategic region that might slow down the economic progress of Russia and China.

It looks like it's about religion, and that's unfortunate, but it wouldn't matter to these corporations if the people of Afghanistan and Iraq happened to be Christian. We'd still be dropping bombs on them if we thought it would be profitable in the long term. We're all capitalist countries. All our concerns - including religious differences - are secondary to the desire of our ruling class to make lots of money.
 
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MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Oppose Islam?

I didn't see many posts shunning so much against Islam so much as the opposition toward violence used against women.

Anyway I don't support what the U.S. has done just as much as I don't support Christianity nor any other faith based religion....and for a good reason. The only thing I despise most is when violent acts against innocent people are supported by a majority of people while being brushed under a rug....because image is everything.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
BTW, all the above is not to say there aren't a lot of nutcase religious fundamentalists serving in the US army at the moment. Harpers magazine recently did a feature article about this issue. But they didn't start the war, and they're not the ones who decide to continue it. It just happens that American nutcase fundamentalists are pretty good at following orders without stopping to consult their conscience, because US Christian fundamentalism is authoritarian religion. Maybe the army is taking advantage of the fact on purpose, or maybe nutcase churches in America are advising young people to enlist due to an insane belief that the End Times are right around the corner. I don't know, but whatever it is, religious soldiers are just the weapon. Capitalism is the hand that wields them.
 
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Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
Yes there is a clash of cultures. Some Americans are zealous Christians, I am sure that they have bibles and like handing them out, although I would be most surprised if it was American official policy.

I know Australians build schools in Afghanistan, we also teach people. Is it a threat to Sharai law if our teachers teach Darwin's Evolution in Muslim schools, or is this again another religious threat to Islam, where fiction appears far more important than facts?

I do think it is totally PARANOID and SCHIZOPHRENIC that Muslims consider it a threat. After all if Sharia Islam is such a flawless and perfect legal system, how on earth, could any logic or alternative compete with it.

The conclusion is that in fact it is flawed, fragile and an antiquated system very prone to collapse. The goal posts are moving again, so now its the West vs all Muslims, how naive, so the very essence of Muslim society is under threat? What absolute nonsense.

Perhaps Sharia law deserves to fail if it is that fragile and imperfect.

Australia gets on very well with the largest Muslim population on earth, Indonesia, right on its door step. They have a few crackpot extremists who get a buzz murdering innocents, some of who were unfortunately executed recently. but the other 229 million are fine. (I do not condone Capital Punishmnt in any form. It is group murder)

But in shifting the goal posts Islamists seem to conveniently forget, The Taliban's Sharai Law public executions, beheadings hangings and lethal stonings at the soccer stadium, in Kahbul, the acid attacks, honor killings the ABSOLUTE REPRESSION OF WOMEN. The killing of schoolgirls. Burning Schools and blowing up hospitals, forgetting Salada Banana Binlardin, who murdered over 3000 innocents on 9/11.

These pigs need to be isolated immediately, for the sake of all mankind.

Cheers
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Yes, it's unfortunate that some Christian aid workers go there with the intent of converting people to Christianity. I oppose it in any country. I think it's wrong to take advantage of poor, disadvantaged people and force another religion on them when they have little other option.

I oppose Canada's role in Afghanistan as it relates to oil. I support Canada's role in Afghanistan as it relates to humanitarian work. So long as we are there to help Afghans and to help Afghans only, I support the mission, at least that part of it.
 
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