Noahs Ark (How can anyone possibly believe the story)

[tarekabdo12]

I swear, nothing brings out the stupid from the fundamentalists like a Noah's flood debate.

[FONT=&quot]If that's what religion offers us so why do u think religious people are stupid?[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abu Yahya Suhaib bin Sinan (May Allah be pleased with him) reported that: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "How wonderful is the case of a believer; there is good for him in everything and this applies only to a believer. If prosperity attends him, he expresses gratitude to Allah and that is good for him; and if adversity befalls him, he endures it patiently and that is better for him".
[Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"O you who believe! Endure and be more patient.."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (3:200)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to As-Sabirun (the patient)"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. (2:155)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Only those who are patient shall receive their reward in full, without reckoning.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (39:10)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives, that would truly be from the things recommended by Allah.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (42:43)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Seek help in patience and As-Salat (the prayer). Truly, Allah is with As-Sabirun (the patient).''[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (2:153)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported that: Certain people of the Ansar asked the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) and he gave them; then they again asked him and he gave them until all what he possessed was exhausted. Then the Prophet (PBUH) said, "Whatever wealth I have, I will not withhold from you. Whosoever would be chaste and modest; Allah will keep him chaste and modest and whosoever would seek self-sufficiency, Allah will make him self-sufficient; and whosoever would be patient, Allah will give him patience, and no one is granted a gift better and more comprehensive than patience".
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abdullah bin Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Truth leads to piety and piety leads to Jannah. A man persists in speaking the truth till he is enrolled with Allah as a truthful. Falsehood leads to vice and vice leads to the Fire (Hell), and a person persists on telling lies until he is enrolled as a liar".'
[Agreed upon].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "It is from the excellence of (a believer's) Islam that he should shun that which is of no concern to him".
[At-Tirmidhi].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Those (i.e., believers) unto whom the people (hypocrites) said, `Verily, the people (pagans) have gathered against you (a great army), therefore, fear them.' But it (only) increased them in Faith, and they said: `Allah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us)'. So they returned with grace and bounty from Allah. No harm touched them; and they followed the good Pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Owner of great bounty".[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (3:173,174)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"And put your trust (O Muhammad (PBUH)) in the Ever Living One Who dies not.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (25:58)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"And in Allah (Alone) let the believers, put their trust.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (14:11)[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]`Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard Messenger of Allah (PBUH) saying: "If you all depend on Allah with due reliance, He would certainly give you provision as He gives it to birds who go forth hungry in the morning and return with full belly at dusk".
[At-Tirmidhi].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Prophet (PBUH) said, "No one of you becomes a true believer until he likes for his brother what he likes for himself".
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"A Muslim is a brother to a Muslim. He should neither deceive him nor lie to him, nor leave him without assistance. Everything belonging to a Muslim is inviolable for a Muslim; his honour, his blood and property. Piety is here (and he pointed out to his chest thrice). It is enough for a Muslim to commit evil by despising his Muslim brother.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "I will be like this in Jannah with the person who takes care of an orphan". Messenger of Allah (PBUH) raised his forefinger and middle finger by way of illustration.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"A Miskin (needy) is not the one who can be turned away with a date-fruit or two, or a morsel or two. The true Miskin is one who, despite his poverty, abstains from begging".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"One who strives to help the widows and the poor is like the one who fights in the way of Allah[/FONT][FONT=&quot].'' The narrator said: I think that he (PBUH) added also: "I shall regard him as the one who stands up (for prayer) without rest and as the one who observes fasts continuously".
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The worst food is the food of the marriage banquet to which the rich are invited and from which the poor are left out".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"He who is involved (in the responsibility) of (bringing up) daughters, and he is benevolent towards them, they would become protection for him against Hell-fire".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Prophet (PBUH) said, "O Allah, I declare inviolable the rights of two weak ones: the orphans and women".
[An-Nasa'i].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "A believer must not hate (his wife) believing woman; if he dislikes one of her characteristics he will be pleased with another".
[Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[tarekabdo12]

[FONT=&quot]"Treat women kindly, they are like captives in your hands; you do not owe anything else from them. In case they are guilty of open indecency, then do not share their beds and beat them lightly but if they return to obedience, do not have recourse to anything else against them. You have rights over your wives and they have their rights over you. Your right is that they shall not permit anyone you dislike to enter your home, and their right is that you should treat them well in the matter of food and clothing".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[At-Tirmidhi].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Jibril kept recommending treating neighbours with kindness until I thought he would assign a share of inheritance".
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: I asked the Messenger of Allah (PBUH): "Who is the most excellent among the Muslims?'' He said, "One from whose tongue and hands the other Muslims are secure.''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Prophet (PBUH) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent.''
[Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "The person who goes about with calumnies will never enter Jannah.''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/riyad/default.htm[/FONT]

 

[Jose Fly]

[FONT=&quot]If that's what religion offers us so why do u think religious people are stupid?[/FONT]

I never said religious people are stupid. I said fundamentalists bring out stupid arguments when debating Noah's Flood.

Look at the absolutely stupid things put forth by the fundamentalists in this thread. Entire continents moving across the earth in a matter of years, mountain ranges forming in a matter of years, a single breeding pair of animals giving rise to hundreds/thousands of species (each with millions of individuals) in a matter of years (and in the next breath they argue that "macroevolution" can't happen)....

Do you have any idea of the absolute stupidity of all that? Have any of you thought about the consequences of these absurdities at all? Even just a little? Do you know how much energy it would take to move Africa and S. America from a single land mass to their current positions in less than 1,000 years? In 10,000 years? Do you know how much energy it would take to raise the Himalayas in less than 1,000 years? In 10,000 years? Do you understand that simple physics dictates that most of that energy would be given off as heat? Do you know what that means to the rest of the earth?

Have you ever thought about why conservation biologists work so hard to keep a species from dropping below 500 individuals? Ever hear of inbreeding depression? But not only do you fundamentalists not understand what that means, you try and argue that the exact opposite happened, i.e. that not only did the "two of each kind" not suffer from inbreeding depression, but many of them gave rise to entirely new and diverse species at rates an evolutionary biologist would never even dream of!

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We haven't even gotten into the fact that the entire geologic record of the earth directly contradicts this whole global flood mythology. The same hold true for the fossil record. Why aren't crabs and lobster remains found mixed in with trilobites? Why aren't eagle and hawk remains mixed in with pterodactyls? Elephants and triceratops?

So you see, to a rational person who is even moderately familiar with basic science, the whole flood debate and the arguments and scenarios put forward by fundamentalists are indeed very, very, very stupid. Don't like that? Well, to paraphrase my signature, if you don't like being called stupid, then stop making ridiculously stupid arguments.

 

[drsatish]

Historic ‘Noah’s Ark’…
Is ABOUT
CURRENT ‘Scientific’ SAVING of DNA…& Species….
Norway's 'Doomsday Vault' holding seeds of survival in case of disaster is buried in Arctic | Mail Online
Would you KILL a Shark, Tiger or a Human?
(same level species)
Satish

 

[outhouse]

The qura'n didn't specify any time for it's occurence

I dont think The quran know's the first thing about a flood thousands of years before its creation and from another culture.

I think if your going to try and refute what I have posted you will need more then a religious book to back your statements

 

[outhouse]

I swear, nothing brings out the stupid from the fundamentalists like a Noah's flood debate.

my only problem is they denounce science in favor of a ancient myth that almost every ancient culture held at one time or the other.

without any study or education in the field of geology or science, you take tarekabdo12 who post an article he believes in. No problem there at all. But I do have a problem when they spread false information and lies based on ignorance due to their religious beliefs.

Searches for Noah's Ark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1980s and 1990s the Durupınar site was heavily promoted by adventurer and former anesthesiologist Ron Wyatt. It consists of a large boat-shaped formation jutting out of the earth and rock. It has the advantage over the Great Ararat site of being approachable. It receives a steady stream of visitors and according to the local authorities a nearby mountain is called "Mount Cudi" (or Judi), making it one of about five Mount Judis in the land of Kurdistan. Geologists have identified the Durupınar site as a natural formation\

Durup

geologist Lorence Collins entitled "Bogus 'Noah's Ark' from Turkey Exposed as a Common Geologic Structure"


In April 1997, during sworn testimony during an Australian court case, Fasold repeated his doubts and noted that he regarded the claim that Noah's ark had been found as "absolute BS"

 

[tarekabdo12]

Do you have any idea of the absolute stupidity of all that? Have any of you thought about the consequences of these absurdities at all? Even just a little? Do you know how much energy it would take to move Africa and S. America from a single land mass to their current positions in less than 1,000 years? In 10,000 years? Do you know how much energy it would take to raise the Himalayas in less than 1,000 years? In 10,000 years? Do you understand that simple physics dictates that most of that energy would be given off as heat? Do you know what that means to the rest of the earth?

Have you ever thought about why conservation biologists work so hard to keep a species from dropping below 500 individuals? Ever hear of inbreeding depression? But not only do you fundamentalists not understand what that means, you try and argue that the exact opposite happened, i.e. that not only did the "two of each kind" not suffer from inbreeding depression, but many of them gave rise to entirely new and diverse species at rates an evolutionary biologist would never even dream of!

Yes, this is non-sense. I totally agree. But I didn't say ever that it happened in a short duration . I can't contradict science. I believe it happened long time ago and the Qur'an didn't mention a time for the occurrence of the flood. I don't also know anything about moving continents as I didn't read all the comments and I don't believe this of course. You are right. I don't still understand why the flood contradicts science? I don't say it happened 10,000 years ago, this is illogical.

 

[outhouse]

You are right. I don't still understand why the flood contradicts science? I don't say it happened 10,000 years ago, this is illogical.

if you read any part of this post you would see I put out my hypothesis [which is held by many]

that the Euphrates overflowed in 2900BC and the flood was regional and originates "WHERE AND WHEN" noahs flood was supposed to have happened.

there is no proof of a global flood that in itself is a scientific impossibility

 

[tarekabdo12]

The Qur'an didn't say where it occured, nor when and didn't mention that it was global, may be it included only a part of the world, we don't know.

And I can't assert that a certain ship is Noah's arc it's only a suggestion.

 

[outhouse]

we don't know.

speak for yourself

And I can't assert that a certain ship is Noah's arc it's only a suggestion.

when you posted the link did you imply that, or say see for yourself???

 

[outhouse]

The Qur'an didn't say where it occured

no but the original source does give a general direction.

and didn't mention that it was global,

the link you gave implied that



if your going to comment on a subject, is there any chance you could use primary or secondary sources ?????

it would avoid allot of confusion

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

[FONT=&quot]"Treat women kindly, they are like captives in your hands; you do not owe anything else from them. In case they are guilty of open indecency, then do not share their beds and beat them lightly but if they return to obedience, do not have recourse to anything else against them.[/FONT]

"Beat them lightly"? Sorry to go off-topic, but how does one judge what is a "light" beating? Surely that is entirely the opinion of the man as to what constitutes "light" beating?

 

[outhouse]

"Beat them lightly"? Sorry to go off-topic, but how does one judge what is a "light" beating? Surely that is entirely the opinion of the man as to what constitutes "light" beating?

how nice and windefull that they only beat their women lightly in these situations

 

[gnostic]

my only problem is they denounce science in favor of a ancient myth that almost every ancient culture held at one time or the other.

My problem is not just that ("denounce science" as you put it) because not everyone understand science. And I can actually accept that they believe in their ancient myths.

No my problem is that some of them (fundamental creationists and intelligent design advocates) are sneaky or cunning enough to twist well-known and well-documented scientific theories to fit their creation myths or flood myths. They are trying to pass off their pseudoscience in the hope to "blindsided" scientists or anyone else into believing what they believe, even if it mean believing in the impossible or fairytale.

 

[outhouse]

My problem is not just that ("denounce science" as you put it) because not everyone understand science. And I can actually accept that they believe in their ancient myths.

No my problem is that some of them (fundamental creationists and intelligent design advocates) are sneaky or cunning enough to twist well-known and well-documented scientific theories to fit their creation myths or flood myths. They are trying to pass off their pseudoscience in the hope to "blindsided" scientists or anyone else into believing what they believe, even if it mean believing in the impossible or fairytale.

So true, they use pseudoscience to prey on ignorance of believers.

I guess one can say with certainty the flood believers can be classified as YEC most of the time.

within the YEC mindset there are a handfull of serious objections i carry.

It is big money maker for the YEC websites that use god to rake in the money

 

[Archer]

I used to be a Christian but after many years left the faith. A number of things were bugging me that could not be answered. I repeatedly questioned the whole Noah's ark story & never got sensible / satisfactory answers. Can someone on here that is religious & a believer in The Ark, please try to explain how:
1)How could all creatures from land & freshwater be contained on a boat . (currently 1.7000000 creatures on earth we know of & more discovered everyday)
2)How could there possibly be enough food of all types needed on board for at least 6months
3)How would you keep animals from hot climates & cold climates alive without any form of heating or cooling equipment
4)When released how did the animals get to their appropriate climates from there
5)If all creatures on board & Noahs family repopulated the earth apart from the incest which would have occured, fact is children / animals produced from there on would have extremely high risk of birth defects / mutations.
Thanks in advance.....

It did not happen the way the english translations make it sound. People tend to spectaciluarize this event. Guy build boat, loads up some animals and escapes a regional flood. Did it happen for a fact? Who cares the truth of the message is not altered.

 

[Dan4reason]

It did not happen the way the english translations make it sound. People tend to spectaciluarize this event. Guy build boat, loads up some animals and escapes a regional flood. Did it happen for a fact? Who cares the truth of the message is not altered.

Thats not what the bible said. It says that a global food killed ALL humans exept Noah and his friends, and they gathered up all animal kinds.

 

[outhouse]

It did not happen the way the english translations make it sound.

LOL you cannot blame how the ancient hebrews wrote it, simply on translations

People tend to spectaciluarize this event

the ancient hebrews did.

I will agree some people understand the story as allegory and thats one way ancien thebres wrote there fables.

many preachers and priest today, still preach a literal translation.

loads up some animals and escapes a regional flood. Did it happen for a fact?

Im pretty sure a sumerian person went down the euphrates on a barge with animals.

Who cares the truth of the message is not altered

Is there any truth at all left in the message?????? or is it all ancient hebrews fiction???

 

[Archer]

Thats not what the bible said. It says that a global food killed ALL humans exept Noah and his friends, and they gathered up all animal kinds.

LOL you cannot blame how the ancient hebrews wrote it, simply on translations



the ancient hebrews did.

I will agree some people understand the story as allegory and thats one way ancien thebres wrote there fables.

many preachers and priest today, still preach a literal translation.




Im pretty sure a sumerian person went down the euphrates on a barge with animals.




Is there any truth at all left in the message?????? or is it all ancient hebrews fiction???

The hebrew says earth (region), nowhere is globe refrenced because "Global" was never a term. The land was localized; ask a Jew.

The truth of it is God does not like wickedness.

 

[darkendless]

The hebrew says earth (region), nowhere is globe refrenced because "Global" was never a term. The land was localized; ask a Jew.

The truth of it is God does not like wickedness.

.... and that christians are masters of editing their facts to suit the required situation.