North Carolina Magistrate refuses to marry interracial couple.

[Sonofason]

Which must mean it's natural for them to do so. just as it is for humans.

Sin comes naturally to a sinful mind. If we sin, it is a choice we make. We can choose not to sin. And that is a hard choice for a sin infested mind.

 

[Sonofason]

With this line of though, it's more than natural....it's as God intended.
It would go against the will of God to interfere with another's deviance.

And by the way, the word natural is in my opinion a useless word. Everything that exists exists naturally. There is nothing unnatural.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sin comes naturally to a sinful mind. If we sin, it is a choice we make. We can choose not to sin. And that is a hard choice for a sin infested mind.

This reminds me of an interesting conversation I once had with a janitor at my alma mater.
He was a Xian. He believed that he was saved even if he sinned.
This is because salvation wasn't dependent upon good works....just belief.
So he did some things ranging from merely wrong to brutally criminal.
It's a convenient belief that one's sins are automatically forgiven.
Can Xianity actually work to encourage wrongful behavior by eliminating negative sanctions?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

And by the way, the word natural is in my opinion a useless word. Everything that exists exists naturally. There is nothing unnatural.

Except, apparently, deviant behavior. "Anything that exists" (for example, homosexuality) "exists naturally."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Right. Aside from the fact that I believe the Bible is quite specific about homosexuality, I personally have issues with the whole concept. I just don't want to be subjected to it. I don't want to see grown men kissing. I don't want to know or have to think about what two male lovers might be doing, whether privately or not. I just think its one of the most disgusting things that exists on the planet. And I don't want it existing. And I don't want anyone else to be subjected to it either. Couldn't really care less how the homosexuals feel about it. It's an abomination to God, and its an abomination to me as well. They'll just have to get used to how I feel about it, cause I'm not going to stop expressing my feelings about it.

So what?

Maybe somebody finds what you do in the bedroom disgusting. Should you have to stop doing it because somebody else doesn't like it?

I think shrimp is disgusting. Should I ban everyone from eating it, or should I be a grown up and just avoid it myself?

 

[Sonofason]

This reminds me of an interesting conversation I once had with a janitor at my alma mater.
He was a Xian. He believed that he was saved even if he sinned.
This is because salvation wasn't dependent upon good works....just belief.
So he did some things ranging from merely to brutally criminal.
It's a convenient belief that one's sins are automatically forgiven.
Can Xianity actually work to encourage wrongful behavior by eliminating negative sanctions?

He was wrong.
Sin matters.

Jesus said:

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(John 14:15-17)

If we love Him we will keep his commandments. Which means if we do not keep His commandments, we do not love Him.

And the following verses we should read carefully, all of them.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

See what it says, if we do evil we hate the light, which is Christ. If we love Christ we will obey Him, if not, we won't.
There is no salvation for the unrepentant sinner. So if you repent, you better mean it, or it won't count. We can tell if you mean it, because you will turn away from sin, which means you will cease doing it. Unrepentant sinners, that is sinners who continue to sin go to Hell.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I agree. Most homosexuals have had messed up lives. Guess we can't blame them. Certainly it's not genetic. I mean, no one's born that way, so it must be caused by an awfully messed up upbringing. It's a shame they all reject God. He could help. But they don't want His help. Too bad.

Some homosexuals have "messed up lives" because of attitudes like the ones you espouse. They could have better lives if people like you just treated them as the human beings they are.

You don't know if they reject god and maybe it's none of your business.

 

[Sonofason]

So what?

Maybe somebody finds what you do in the bedroom disgusting. Should you have to stop doing it because somebody else doesn't like it?

I think shrimp is disgusting. Should I ban everyone from eating it, or should I be a grown up and just avoid it myself?

Do what ever you want. And I will do what ever I want.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sure it does. God created the creatures that evolve. Evolution most certainly does have intention. And the intention of evolution belongs to God.

Oh okay, so then the conclusion we can draw from that is that god created homosexuality.

 

[Revoltingest]

He was wrong.
Sin matters.

Jesus said:

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(John 14:15-17)

If we love Him we will keep his commandments. Which means if we do not keep His commandments, we do not love Him.

And the following verses we should read carefully, all of them.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

See what it says, if we do evil we hate the light, which is Christ. If we love Christ we will obey Him, if not, we won't.
There is no salvation for the unrepentant sinner. So if you repent, you better mean it, or it won't count. We can tell if you mean it, because you will turn away from sin, which means you will cease doing it. Unrepentant sinners, that is sinners who continue to sin go to Hell.

Yes, Xianity is supposed to inspire good works, & discourage sin.
But if salvation doesn't depend upon this, & only upon belief, then
it doesn't have the deterministic effect you claim.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do what ever you want. And I will do what ever I want.

Do you understand what I am saying?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Anything beyond what nature intended is indeed either not natural, or a deformity

You mean like your unnatural computer with its unnatural pieces and its unnatural construction and the unnatural internet that allows you to unnaturally communicate instantly with people anywhere on the Earth? Or the unnatural car you drive that is ran off of unnaturally refined oil? Or the unnatural food you eat that goes through unnatural processing and contains unnatural additives?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sin comes naturally to a sinful mind. If we sin, it is a choice we make. We can choose not to sin. And that is a hard choice for a sin infested mind.

According to your Bible, sin comes naturally to all, it is something we all do, and is something we will all continue to do (even if we try to not).
And if you're not sinning, you're aren't being honest.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

You mean like your unnatural computer with its unnatural pieces and its unnatural construction and the unnatural internet that allows you to unnaturally communicate instantly with people anywhere on the Earth? Or the unnatural car you drive that is ran off of unnaturally refined oil? Or the unnatural food you eat that goes through unnatural processing and contains unnatural additives?

I had already forgotten that he had posted that clunker...and then contradicted it with this one:

And by the way, the word natural is in my opinion a useless word. Everything that exists exists naturally. There is nothing unnatural.

 

[Sonofason]

Some homosexuals have "messed up lives" because of attitudes like the ones you espouse. They could have better lives if people like you just treated them as the human beings they are.

You don't know if they reject god and maybe it's none of your business.

Everything I know about, and everything that I am aware of is my business.
I treat everyone as human beings, until they offend me. Then I treat them as I see fit. In my life I treat all people with the same degree of respect, unless they somehow deserve less. We are on a debate forum and I am giving my opinion, an opinion I would not share outside of this forum unless there was some occasion where I felt my opinion ought to be shared. I don't go around insulting homosexuals in my life. But if I say something here that seems offensive to them, they should know it is only my opinion, and I do intend to share it. If they don't like it, they can find a site where 100% of the people agree with them, and debate them on the subject.

 

[Sonofason]

Oh okay, so then the conclusion we can draw from that is that god created homosexuality.

You can draw that conclusion if you want. I do not.
I suggest that homosexuals entice evil thoughts pertaining to their sexuality, or they become enticed by evil thoughts pertaining to their sexuality, which leads them to sin. And I believe if they would confess their sin to God, and repent from those evil thoughts, and/or evil people who entice them with evil thoughts, they could be redeemed. But I also believe that most won't.

 

[Sonofason]

According to your Bible, sin comes naturally to all, it is something we all do, and is something we will all continue to do (even if we try to not).
And if you're not sinning, you're aren't being honest.

You said you felt no shame whatsoever with regard to your sins. Big difference between that and acknowledging your sins and turning from them, or even trying to turn from them. It is amazing how close one can come to God when God sees an effort.

 

[Sonofason]

You mean like your unnatural computer with its unnatural pieces and its unnatural construction and the unnatural internet that allows you to unnaturally communicate instantly with people anywhere on the Earth? Or the unnatural car you drive that is ran off of unnaturally refined oil? Or the unnatural food you eat that goes through unnatural processing and contains unnatural additives?

Computers are natural. It comes quite naturally for human beings to construct things like computers. There existence is quite natural, considering that we exist.

 

[Sonofason]

Do you understand what I am saying?

Of course I do. If you want me to stop having sex with my wife, then stop me. Meanwhile I will try to change a few minds, and do what I can to lessen the number of individuals going to Hell.

 

[Sonofason]

I had already forgotten that he had posted that clunker...and then contradicted it with this one:

I should define my terms. Everything in my opinion is natural. Therefore, when I use the term natural, especially in contexts such as this, I am often referring to those things which God has ordained and/or those things in which God approves. I would say love is natural, hatred is unnatural, however naturally hatred can come to some people. God made woman for man. Therefore marriages between men and woman are natural. While it may seem quite natural for two gay persons to want to be married, it is unnatural from my perspective.