North Carolina Magistrate refuses to marry interracial couple.

[JoStories]

Reality is not black and white like you WANT it to be. If god hates homosexuality and it is a sin, why did god create a certain percentage of humanity to be homosexuals? Either your god doesn't know what it is he actually wants or the books that have gotten you so fired up about this are just normal books written by normal men who found homosexuality "icky" like you. If homosexuality is so horrible why did Christ never mention it? If homosexuality is so horrible why is it not forbidden in the ten commandments? It occurs to me that if god was really intelligent and really hated homosexuality he would have designed us so that we were physically incapable of indulging in practicing in it at all. Your (and those like you) harsh judgment of others and desire to impose your beliefs on others is one of the things that drove me away from religion and drives others from religion every day. So keep spouting your ignorant and intolerant views, go make us some new atheists.

I agree save that for some, like me, God is not like what these people say at all, and because of those people, Buddhism and a firm belief in God works for me and maybe others. No offense Just, I can appreciate that you are an atheist and are happy with that. I applaud you but some do find solace in God. Just not the god that these others try to depict.

 

[cambridge79]

They did it differently, but they still had a streak of Conservativism about it, and many of them, much like many today, thought it entirely an inappropriate topic of discussion. And, much like today, the female perspective wasn't cared for much.

i didn't say they were a sexual utopia, i said they were much more open to sex. Of course every society has its tabooes and its forbidden things ( for example roman males could have homosexual sex but only if they were active and only with a lower status man, like a slave, otherwise it would have been considered lack of masculinity ) and yes probably female were, as usually, considered very less in that regard, but at least in comparison sexuality was considered something to enjoy an a pleasure of life. The way christianity dealt with sexuality is to see it as a sin allaround, and it should strictly be practiced to have babies, if you're married. Basically they ruined it for everybody.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I should have read ahead Skeptic. I would have just agreed with you. Well said. and a fine and wonderful happy Thanksgiving to you, if you celebrate this day. Kiss kiss darling.

I am Canadian so we celebrated last month, but thank you for saying so. And a very Happy Thanksgiving to You! Please eat some turkey for me! I'm going through withdrawal already and it's a while until Christmas still. xo

 

[Shadow Wolf]

i didn't say they were a sexual utopia, i said they were much more open to sex. Of course every society has its tabooes and its forbidden things ( for example roman males could have homosexual sex but only if they were active and only with a lower status man, like a slave, otherwise it would have been considered lack of masculinity ) and yes probably female were, as usually, considered very less in that regard, but at least in comparison sexuality was considered something to enjoy an a pleasure of life.

The way christianity dealt with sexuality is to see it as a sin allaround, and it should strictly be practiced to have babies, if you're married. Basically they ruined it for everybody.

I'll agree that, in general, Christianity takes a harsher stance against sex, but even in ancient Greece and Rome, they had limits, they had strong taboos, Ovid was exiled, and Aristophanes was the exception. I can see where it seems they were more open, as the Greek men did have sex with adolescent boys, but two adult men, more the "receiver" than "giver," was frowned upon and strongly discouraged. And the church really wasn't anti-sex until Thomas Aquinas, who was very repulsed by sex, to the point it's an indication that he had some sort of disorder, as he thought god should have created some other way for people to reproduce.
I'd say they were open to more aspects of it, and while they certainly weren't Victorian or Puritan prudish, they weren't all that much more open than we are today.

 

[JustWondering]

I agree save that for some, like me, God is not like what these people say at all, and because of those people, Buddhism and a firm belief in God works for me and maybe others. No offense Just, I can appreciate that you are an atheist and are happy with that. I applaud you but some do find solace in God. Just not the god that these others try to depict.

Most Christians I've personally met are not judgmental and pushy. Unfortunately, the loudest Christians tend to be the least Christ-like and need to be reminded of how their messiah wanted them to behave and treat their fellow man.

 

[JoStories]

i didn't say they were a sexual utopia, i said they were much more open to sex. Of course every society has its tabooes and its forbidden things ( for example roman males could have homosexual sex but only if they were active and only with a lower status man, like a slave, otherwise it would have been considered lack of masculinity ) and yes probably female were, as usually, considered very less in that regard, but at least in comparison sexuality was considered something to enjoy an a pleasure of life. The way christianity dealt with sexuality is to see it as a sin allaround, and it should strictly be practiced to have babies, if you're married. Basically they ruined it for everybody.

I agree to a point with you however, my studies of that time period suggest that it was not until later that sex was seen as a 'sin'. Specifically Aquinas and his view on the world was seriously askew. It was from him that the Church and Christians adopted this aversion to sex. And I don't agree they ruined it really. Today we are much more open and accepting of sex and sexual proclivities than even 60 years ago.

 

[JoStories]

I am Canadian so we celebrated last month, but thank you for saying so. And a very Happy Thanksgiving to You! Please eat some turkey for me! I'm going through withdrawal already and it's a while until Christmas still. xo

You should have come down here to my house. We had prime rib and a 30 pound turkey that I cooked along with all the things that go with it. We tend to have ham for Christmas here instead of turkey as well. What part of Canada? I live so close to Canada. My favorite part is Quebec but I also love Nova Scotia as well.

 

[JoStories]

Most Christians I've personally met are not judgmental and pushy. Unfortunately, the loudest Christians tend to be the least Christ-like and need to be reminded of how their messiah wanted them to behave and treat their fellow man.

Agreed. My mom is a devout Christian. Unfortunately, I have met many who are the 'in your face' type and its highly annoying. I have been told too many times I am going to hell by these alleged well meaning people.

 

[cambridge79]

Today we are much more open and accepting of sex and sexual proclivities than even 60 years ago.

simply because we started to care less and less about what the pope say to you if you have sex before marriage. the way catholicism for example sees sex hasn't changed a bit as far as i know.
they just have no more the power to punish you or harm you if you don't listen to them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You should have come down here to my house. We had prime rib and a 30 pound turkey that I cooked along with all the things that go with it. We tend to have ham for Christmas here instead of turkey as well. What part of Canada? I live so close to Canada. My favorite part is Quebec but I also love Nova Scotia as well.

Just outside Toronto in southern Ontario. I'm just a couple hours' drive from New York or Pennsylvania.

I would love to have joined you, that sounds amazing! I have a feeling you are a great cook (as opposed to myself who relies on the kindness of other family members to cook edible food ). For some reason, we generally have ham around Easter and turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas time. Maybe because we're all turkeyed out by the time Christmas is over. I'm not sure exactly.

 

[JoStories]

simply because we started to care less and less about what the pope say to you if you have sex before marriage. the way catholicism for example sees sex hasn't changed a bit as far as i know.
they just have no more the power to punish you or harm you if you don't listen to them.

I would still disagree. The RCC is much more accepting. Some priests are now marrying and that is accepted. The attitude toward SSM is much less rigid although the Church still does not recognize SSM and admittedly, the more staunch members are very much against it. Divorce is more common and annulments more freely given. But I do agree that they have no power over me. In my case, due to amazing parents who exposed me to many faiths, I learned that religion is less about control and more about finding the right faith or lack thereof that fits one's life.

 

[JoStories]

Just outside Toronto in southern Ontario. I'm just a couple hours' drive from New York or Pennsylvania.

I would love to have joined you, that sounds amazing! I have a feeling you are a great cook (as opposed to myself who relies on the kindness of other family members to cook edible food ). For some reason, we generally have ham around Easter and turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas time. Maybe because we're all turkeyed out by the time Christmas is over. I'm not sure exactly.

LOL...that turkey'd out is why we have either ham or roast beef at Christmas. I love Toronto and have family that lives in the suburbs there. Quite a few of my family left this country and moved to yours due to the political climate here and the healthcare debacle. I admit I do love to cook and most tell me I am a very good dessert cook. Particularly cookies and things like that. You are welcome anytime at all to come for dinner.

 

[cambridge79]

I would still disagree. The RCC is much more accepting. Some priests are now marrying and that is accepted. The attitude toward SSM is much less rigid although the Church still does not recognize SSM and admittedly, the more staunch members are very much against it. Divorce is more common and annulments more freely given. But I do agree that they have no power over me. In my case, due to amazing parents who exposed me to many faiths, I learned that religion is less about control and more about finding the right faith or lack thereof that fits one's life.

catholic priest marrying? i've never heard one. i think he would be immediately excommunicated.
ssm is an absolute no for the rcc. I live in Italy and here RCC is always openly and fiercely against not only SSM but whatever civil right, including civil unions, for the homosexuals.
All over europe gays are getting rights of every kind, here thanks to our ties between our politicians and the RCC under the legal perspective they're still getting nothing.
the way RCC officialy deal with homosexuality is the following: the very fact of being gay is not a taboo itself, but if you're gay you can't act as a gay because that's a sin so basically if you're gay you have to stay alone all your life or pretend you're eterosexual. in their view if you're gay you can't marry, and whoever is not married can't have sex. and in the case of gays they wouldn't be able to reporduce so it would be pointless because it would be only for pleasure and for the RCC is a sin.
divorce is a civil right so they have to deal with it. Usually divorced people are denyed the communion, but that actually depends on who you are and who is your priest ( for example you probably know who is Berlusconi: he is just a fake christian but he shows himself in churches from time to time to look good to his catholic voters: he is divorced, had an abortion many years ago and does orgies, nobody ever dare to deny him communion, you know, expecially here in italy church and power are extremely interlocked )

of course i'm talking about the official doctrine, priests here are known to "have fun" and RCC is always involved in sex scandals of every kind, in the end concerning sex they apparently follow the rule "do what i say but please don't say what i do"

 

[SkepticThinker]

LOL...that turkey'd out is why we have either ham or roast beef at Christmas. I love Toronto and have family that lives in the suburbs there. Quite a few of my family left this country and moved to yours due to the political climate here and the healthcare debacle. I admit I do love to cook and most tell me I am a very good dessert cook. Particularly cookies and things like that. You are welcome anytime at all to come for dinner.

It just so happens that dessert is my favourite part of the meal. Cookies and cakes are my weakness. Anybody who knows me will tell you that I will eat cake or cookies for breakfast lunch and dinner and then again later for a snack.

That's interesting about your family - I might even know some of them. I hear people talk about leaving the US for Canada for a variety of reasons but they actually did it. Wow, good for them. I think this is a fantastic place to live. Our health care isn't perfect but it hasn't let me down yet.

 

[JoStories]

It just so happens that dessert is my favourite part of the meal. Cookies and cakes are my weakness. Anybody who knows me will tell you that I will eat cake or cookies for breakfast lunch and dinner and then again later for a snack.

That's interesting about your family - I might even know some of them. I hear people talk about leaving the US for Canada for a variety of reasons but they actually did it. Wow, good for them. I think this is a fantastic place to live. Our health care isn't perfect but it hasn't let me down yet.

It was not about the healthcare that they moved there, although that was a bonus, it was because this country is so bad of late that no one wants to be a party of a country whose politicians don't care one whit about their people. Big business runs this country, including the pharmaceutical companies who recently raised the cost of meds 700% and no one can reign them in. And yes, the cost of healthcare as well. Then there is the open racism, Children killing children with no one to stop them and so much more. If my mom were healthier, we would move up there. As it is, I wil be once she passes with my BFF and be finally free of this obvious theocracy. And honey, when I get there, you better be coming over for dinner and dessert or shall it just be dessert?

 

[SkepticThinker]

It was not about the healthcare that they moved there, although that was a bonus, it was because this country is so bad of late that no one wants to be a party of a country whose politicians don't care one whit about their people. Big business runs this country, including the pharmaceutical companies who recently raised the cost of meds 700% and no one can reign them in. And yes, the cost of healthcare as well. Then there is the open racism, Children killing children with no one to stop them and so much more. If my mom were healthier, we would move up there. As it is, I wil be once she passes with my BFF and be finally free of this obvious theocracy. And honey, when I get there, you better be coming over for dinner and dessert or shall it just be dessert?

Ah I see. Can't say I disagree with all that, of course I don't live there so obviously I've never actually experienced it firsthand. But hearing and reading about it makes me very happy that I do not live there. And I can't wait til you join us, Canada will be lucky to have you.

Dessert for dinner will do just fine.

 

[JoStories]

Ah I see. Can't say I disagree with all that, of course I don't live there so obviously I've never actually experienced it firsthand. But hearing and reading about it makes me very happy that I do not live there. And I can't wait til you join us, Canada will be lucky to have you.

Dessert for dinner will do just fine.

ROFL...Dessert it is my dear. I hope you like all sorts of gooey and decadent things for dessert. And trust me when I say you are lucky not to live here where the one of the most likely candidates for president is a Trumped-up (pun not intended) ******* with a seriously bad toupe.

 

[sojourner]

Frankly my dear, I don't give a ...

The point is that these Magistrates in this case said that interracial marriage was against their religion. And I believe that they believed that interracial marriage was against their religion. It is not up to the government to determine whether they are following a "true religion", the point is that this was a sincerely held religious belief. That is the criteria that people are still using today to get religious exemption from the law. My point is that we can't allow civil servants to deny people marriages because of their "sincerely held religious belief". And we can't get into a debate about correct interpretation, because that does not matter to this issue.

(p.s.) please don't interpret this thread as an attack on Christianity. Because honestly I don't care about Christianity enough to attack it.

The "freedom of religion" clause means that individuals may worship and practice as they choose. It doesn't mean that they can dictate, or use their bully pulpit to coerce others to practice the same things. If their religion prevents them from marrying interracially, then they shouldn't get married to a person of another race. But that doesn't mean that they can prevent others from marrying someone of a different race.

 

[JustWondering]

@Sonofason, since you have not replied I take it you accept defeat against me in this debate.

 

[Sonofason]

2 Samuel 5;13.
Judges 19; 1-30
and as stated in the book of Kings, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. And in Genesis 30, Jacob had 2 wives and handmaidens as concubines.

That is ridiculous, just because a man had concubines does in no way suggest that God condoned it.