North Carolina Magistrate refuses to marry interracial couple.

[beenherebeforeagain]

Except the thing is, homosexuality is not like the things you describe here. It's more like your eye colour - something you're born with through no choice of your own. People who are heterosexual didn't choose their sexuality either (as I think anyone who's ever been attracted to another human being would know). It just is what it is. It is part of who a person is. How could it not be? I don't understand people who would say that their heterosexuality was not a choice but that somehow others' homosexuality is a choice.

So if sin is a result of choice then people who are gay have not sinned, since they've made no choice. And let me just ask you a question. Up until fairly recently in human history the LGBT community has been treated pretty appallingly (and in some parts of the world, still are). Why on earth would anyone consciously choose to be gay knowing that you will certainly face a lifetime of persecution, marginalization, and even torture and death in some cases? It makes absolutely no sense unless it is something that an individual is born with.

And, I will add, the only people for whom their sexual preference seems to be a choice are bisexuals, who are attracted to both sexes--but again, that seems to be primarily genetic.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And, I will add, the only people for whom their sexual preference seems to be a choice are bisexuals, who are attracted to both sexes--but again, that seems to be primarily genetic.

Well sure, and I think we've learned that sexuality is actually much more fluid than we once thought and seems to fall more along a spectrum than just a black and white gay/straight kind of distinction.

 

[cambridge79]

Well sure, and I think we've learned that sexuality is actually much more fluid than we once thought and seems to fall more along a spectrum than just a black and white gay/straight kind of distinction.

actually is more "than christianity imposed on us". Romans and Greeks for example had a much more open approach to sexuality and it was 2000 years ago so this "we once thought" doesn't seem to describe the issue properly

 

[Akivah]

Everyone sins...that is certainly true. However, we recognize that the sins we commit are a matter of the choices that we make. I can choose to steal someone's wallet, or I can choose to sleep with someone else's wife. But I would never say that I was born a thief, or that I was born to be an adulterer. Sins are a result of choice. And I can repent from those sins. While it may be difficult, depending on my dependency to those sins, I can turn around, change my ways, and do the right thing.

This bit was very well stated.

 

[Akivah]

So if sin is a result of choice then people who are gay have not sinned, since they've made no choice.

For people that have a prediction towards having sexual relations with the same sex, every time that they indulge in that desire, they commit a sin. Having the desire, but not acting on it does not cause a sin.

Up until fairly recently in human history the LGBT community has been treated pretty appallingly (and in some parts of the world, still are). Why on earth would anyone consciously choose to be gay knowing that you will certainly face a lifetime of persecution, marginalization, abandonment, and even torture and death in some cases? It makes absolutely no sense unless it is something that an individual is born with.

People are born with all sorts of sinful desires. Some have the desire to set fires, some have the desire of consuming vast quantities of food, etc. Some people find it easier to indulge in their sinful desires no matter the personal and societal punishments, instead of maintaining the willpower to forbear their sinful desires.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ahem....."predilection".

Anyway, I support those who believe homo sex=sin to not engage in it.
But I draw the line at their forcing others not to.

 

[JustWondering]

You're right, I don't give a rats behind about the stress sinful people bring upon themselves for engaging in their sins.

Love thy neighbor as you love yourself. You're not very good at this following Christ thing are you?

 

[JustWondering]

I'm glad you agree. Laws do not always change for the better. In fact, if God's laws were enforced, there would be very little to talk about here.

Your God's law demands that rapists marry their victims or pay off the victims father. So if someone raped your daughter you would be fine with this yes? It is your god's law after all.

 

[Nietzsche]

For people that have a prediction towards having sexual relations with the same sex, every time that they indulge in that desire, they commit a sin. Having the desire, but not acting on it does not cause a sin.



People are born with all sorts of sinful desires. Some have the desire to set fires, some have the desire of consuming vast quantities of food, etc. Some people find it easier to indulge in their sinful desires no matter the personal and societal punishments, instead of maintaining the willpower to forbear their sinful desires.

Is it willpower to deny yourself when no harm is caused, or is it self-denial bred by an internal weakness to be what you are?

 

[JustWondering]

What of those who love two people equally. We should allow polygamy as well, right?
And what of those who love children. Shall we allow adults to marry children? Maybe you're right. Maybe we should.

The right of marriage in the US belongs to and between CONSENTING ADULTS. Should we allow polygamy? Sure why not? Should we allow adults to marry children? No, marriage is between consenting adults. Any other brain busters?

 

[SkepticThinker]

For people that have a prediction towards having sexual relations with the same sex, every time that they indulge in that desire, they commit a sin. Having the desire, but not acting on it does not cause a sin.

I don't agree that it's a sin. And I think it's harmful to a person's psychological well-being to tell them there is something wrong with them when they are doing something that brings them fulfillment in life and is not harming anyone.

People are born with all sorts of sinful desires. Some have the desire to set fires, some have the desire of consuming vast quantities of food, etc. Some people find it easier to indulge in their sinful desires no matter the personal and societal punishments, instead of maintaining the willpower to forbear their sinful desires.

Some people just want to love another consenting adult and be happy without being judged for it. I think it's bizarre to tell anybody that love is a sin.

There are no societal punishments for being gay anymore, thank goodness.

And if there is some kind of god that's going to judge us for loving people, isn't it supposed to be up to that god to judge us instead of us judging each other?

 

[columbus]

For people that have a prediction towards having sexual relations with the same sex, every time that they indulge in that desire, they commit a sin. Having the desire, but not acting on it does not cause a sin.

But "sin" is such a subjective concept. There is no objective meaning for the word, at all.
Rev eats bacon with gusto. I have sex with one guy, the same one I was having sex with 20 years ago. Pat Robertson encouraged his following to donate to AIPAC.
Which matters?
And why?
Tom

 

[JustWondering]

I should define my terms. Everything in my opinion is natural. Therefore, when I use the term natural, especially in contexts such as this, I am often referring to those things which God has ordained and/or those things in which God approves. I would say love is natural, hatred is unnatural, however naturally hatred can come to some people. God made woman for man. Therefore marriages between men and woman are natural. While it may seem quite natural for two gay persons to want to be married, it is unnatural from my perspective.

Reality is not black and white like you WANT it to be. If god hates homosexuality and it is a sin, why did god create a certain percentage of humanity to be homosexuals? Either your god doesn't know what it is he actually wants or the books that have gotten you so fired up about this are just normal books written by normal men who found homosexuality "icky" like you. If homosexuality is so horrible why did Christ never mention it? If homosexuality is so horrible why is it not forbidden in the ten commandments? It occurs to me that if god was really intelligent and really hated homosexuality he would have designed us so that we were physically incapable of indulging in practicing in it at all. Your (and those like you) harsh judgment of others and desire to impose your beliefs on others is one of the things that drove me away from religion and drives others from religion every day. So keep spouting your ignorant and intolerant views, go make us some new atheists.

 

[Revoltingest]

But "sin" is such a subjective concept. There is no objective meaning for the word, at all.
Rev eats bacon with gusto. I have sex with one guy, the same one I was having sex with 20 years ago. Pat Robertson encouraged his following to donate to AIPAC.
Which matters?
And why?
Tom

Bacon & gay sex.....Allah might strike us down with lightning if we ever get near each other!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Bacon & gay sex.....Allah might strike us down with lightning if we ever get near each other!

Can you please never post 'bacon and gay sex' again? The images which that conjured are going to require the mental equivalent of steel wool to remove.

 

[Revoltingest]

Can you please never post 'bacon and gay sex' again? The images which that conjured are going to require the mental equivalent of steel wool to remove.

I might even post antique machine tools with them too!
Booowhahahahahahahhahahhhhahahhha, etc!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I might even post antique machine tools with them too!
Booowhahahahahahahhahahhhhahahhha, etc!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Romans and Greeks for example had a much more open approach to sexuality and it was 2000 years ago so this "we once thought" doesn't seem to describe the issue properly

They did it differently, but they still had a streak of Conservativism about it, and many of them, much like many today, thought it entirely an inappropriate topic of discussion. And, much like today, the female perspective wasn't cared for much.

 

[JoStories]

For people that have a prediction towards having sexual relations with the same sex, every time that they indulge in that desire, they commit a sin. Having the desire, but not acting on it does not cause a sin.



People are born with all sorts of sinful desires. Some have the desire to set fires, some have the desire of consuming vast quantities of food, etc. Some people find it easier to indulge in their sinful desires no matter the personal and societal punishments, instead of maintaining the willpower to forbear their sinful desires.

I would argue that sin is defined differently not only between different religions but between different cultures. And I would also argue that sin is a man made concept in the first place. The idea of sin is contrived to have people follow an arbitrary set of rules. For you, assuming you are Jewish as noted under your avatar, eating pork is a sin. For a Christian, it would not be. So who is sinning here? You mention eating too much. Whom does that harm, other than the obese person? Similarly, who does gay sex harm? If it is between two consenting adults, there is no harm. You believe the two commit a sin but who are you to judge? You are not God. You're welcome to you opinions and your beliefs but that stops at my door. I don't believe these things are sin so who is wrong and who is right? You base your beliefs on a book written, IMO, by men. I am not one of your faith therefore, I am not compelled to follow those edicts. You are. And you are welcome to. But please keep in mind that I have my rights too, and those rights include not having to believe in what you do.

 

[JoStories]

I don't agree that it's a sin. And I think it's harmful to a person's psychological well-being to tell them there is something wrong with them when they are doing something that brings them fulfillment in life and is not harming anyone.



Some people just want to love another consenting adult and be happy without being judged for it. I think it's bizarre to tell anybody that love is a sin.

There are no societal punishments for being gay anymore, thank goodness.

And if there is some kind of god that's going to judge us for loving people, isn't it supposed to be up to that god to judge us instead of us judging each other?

I should have read ahead Skeptic. I would have just agreed with you. Well said. and a fine and wonderful happy Thanksgiving to you, if you celebrate this day. Kiss kiss darling.