Norway -one of the most anti semitic countries on earth

[CMike]

The animation looks terrible... not that I'd know for sure, since it doesn't look like a worthy 9 seconds.

In any case, let me specify: I'm playing devil's advocate, here, for the animal rights groups that would encourage stunning even in kosher rituals.

I, myself, am in favor of allowing Jews to practice their rituals as they please, but am also not Norwegian, and so have no say in their laws, and this is a minor issue.

It's a minor issue to YOU because you obviously don't care if jews can fully practice their religion.

To jews it's not a minor issue.

But as the Norway prime minister said they "didn't invite the jews" so who cares.

 

[CMike]

From the link:
Cut the esophagus, trachea, carotid arteries, and jugular veins in one quick incision.
The incision must not at all pull or tear. If done correctly, the animal will die within 2 seconds.


Two seconds is too long. It should die instantly.

Two seconds is instantly in killing.

It still feels no pain for the reasons that I wrote.

How long does the pain of "stunning" last?

 

[Riverwolf]

It's a minor issue to YOU because you obviously don't care if jews can fully practice their religion.

Sure took your time throwing that card at me, didn't ya?

'Sides, a bit unfair, since I'm sure you care fully about whether Germanic neopagans can fully practice their religions as they interpret the traditions (except for the human sacrifice that used to happen in the old days... yeah, no, absolutely not), despite your earlier statement that seemed to imply the contrary.

To jews it's not a minor issue.

So far, of the Jews who have participated in this thread, you're the only one who considers it anything other than a minor issue.

So, yeah, to YOU it's not a minor issue, but it's pretty presumptuous to presume you can speak for EVERYONE in your religion.

 

[Riverwolf]

Two seconds is instantly in killing.

It still feels no pain for the reasons that I wrote.

How long does the pain of "stunning" last?

Still speaking devil's advocate, it should be 100% instantaneous, and so absolutely no pain whatsoever.

 

[CMike]

Sure took your time throwing that card at me, didn't ya?

'Sides, a bit unfair, since I'm sure you care fully about whether Germanic neopagans can fully practice their religions as they interpret the traditions (except for the human sacrifice that used to happen in the old days... yeah, no, absolutely not), despite your earlier statement that seemed to imply the contrary.

So far, of the Jews who have participated in this thread, you're the only one who considers it anything other than a minor issue.

So, yeah, to YOU it's not a minor issue, but it's pretty presumptuous to presume you can speak for EVERYONE in your religion.

I am speaking for orthodox jews that keep kosher, and especially the ones in Norway who have to deal with Norway's anti-semitism, and who make it extremely difficult for them to eat meat based on their ignorance and failure to understand what koshering meat entails.

And that other "jews" in this forum don't care is shameful.

 

[Riverwolf]

I am speaking for orthodox jews that keep kosher, and especially the ones in Norway who have to deal with Norway's anti-semitism, and who make it extremely difficult for them to eat meat based on their ignorance and failure to understand what koshering meat entails.

I can understand that frustration, again with the sword example from before, but honestly, since there's more pressing issues at hand (such as the university one you brought up), it's not a super-high priority.

Practicality must take precedence over tradition.

And that other "jews" in this forum don't care is shameful.

I'm pretty sure you can trust that they're not Bacon Trees Jews.

Unless only Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, in which case we have a No True Scotsman case.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The law is wrong.

And yes it should change based on religious beliefs.

For every religion?

 

[CMike]

I can understand that frustration, again with the sword example from before, but honestly, since there's more pressing issues at hand (such as the university one you brought up), it's not a super-high priority.

Once again, a super priority to whom? You who don't care? I'm sure it means nothing.

To jews who can't get meat in Norway it means a lot.

Why don't you try and go a week without eating any meat and see if you think how low of a priority it is.

Let me get this straight...Your religion requires you to carry a sword wherever you go? Why?

Practicality must take precedence over tradition.

It's not "tradition" it's jewish law.

I'm pretty sure you can trust that they're not Bacon Trees Jews.

Unless only Orthodox Judaism is real Judaism, in which case we have a No True Scotsman case.

I am used to arguing with non jews about this stuff.

However, to see so called "jews" defend Norway's blatant anti-semitism makes me want to barf. It's is disgusting. It makes me think of the jews who probably rationalized the nazis at that time.

Just to list what Norway has done against jews again:

• A former prime minister criticized Obama for appointing Rahm Emanuel to his cabinet because he is a jew.
• Norway made it illegal for jews to kosher their meat. The former prime minister when this law was passed when asked about it said "we didn't invite the jews".
• Norway openly and fully supports Hamas. Not only an organization that wants to destroy all of Israel, but targets civilians for attacks in order to spread terror.
• Norway universities refused to let Alan Dershowitz speak only because he is moderate pro-Israel. Anti-Israel speakers are readily sought and speak there.
• Norway collaborated with the nazis with the rounding up and mass murder of jews.

Norway is the enemy of the jews.

It disgusts me that so called jews defend these actions. They ought to be ashamed of themselves and are an embarassment.

 

[CMike]

For every religion?

If the law isn't there to protect people or society then it shouldn't be there...period.

The fact that it doesn't allow jews to fully practice their religion makes it more imperative for the rediculous law to be repealed.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

If the law isn't there to protect people or society then it shouldn't be there...period.

The fact that it doesn't allow jews to fully practice their religion makes it more imperative for the rediculous law to be repealed.

I highly doubt they're going to change their laws just to make the Jews happy. I see no reason why they should. The idea that any country should have to change their established rules in order to accommodate the traditions of one religion is pretentious at best. If you want to live in the ideal Jewish society where all laws are compliant with Jewish tradition, move to Israel... Isn't that the whole reason the Israeli state was established in the first place?

 

[CMike]

Jew-Hatred in Contemporary Norwegian CaricaturesJerusalem Center For Public Affairs

 

[Riverwolf]

Once again, a super priority to whom? You who don't care? I'm sure it means nothing.

You might want to rethink the knee-jerk assumptions of what I and others care about.

After all, I like Norway, and all of Scandinavia. As with any other countries I like, if I hear accusations that there's some kind of injustice going on there, I want to know about it.

So far, you've demonstrated that there's at least one major injustice going on in the universities.

Another has given some statistics that point to the fact that antisemitism in Norway among the people (that is, the ones who really matter) is worryingly high.

I absolutely care about that.

These are my kin-brothers, dude. There may not be a whole lot I can do about them, since I don't live in Norway and am not directly of Norwegian descent, but it does mean there's a lot to be concerned about.

I dreaded coming back into this thread to face your wrath. But I came back anyway. If I didn't care, why would I have bothered?

To jews who can't get meat in Norway it means a lot.

Why don't you try and go a week without eating any meat and see if you think how low of a priority it is.

I was a vegetarian for a few months, as it turns out. In the states, it's entirely possible to get all the nutrients one needs from a purely vegetarian diet. Is such a thing not possible in Norway?

If because the country is so far north that a healthy vegetarian diet is impossible, THEN I will share your sentiments as something justified insofar as this being a problem. But there's still nothing to indicate Norway is akin to Nazi Germany, here.

Let me get this straight...Your religion requires you to carry a sword wherever you go? Why?

My religion requires virtually nothing beyond the Nine Noble Virtues, and even those are subject to interpretation and adjustment as needed, as they're not Godlaws. The only two Godlaws I'm aware of are not locking up the Gods in houses like they were prisoners and so perform sacred rights outside, and not to commit hubris.

But the sword is the symbol of freedom and the freeman. Those who didn't carry swords were slaves, which meant you were worth even less than the African American slaves in America.

It's not "tradition" it's jewish law.

Can you tell me what the difference between "Jewish tradition" and "Jewish law" are?

I am used to arguing with non jews about this stuff.

However, to see so called "jews" defend Norway's blatant anti-semitism makes me want to barf. It's is disgusting. It makes me think of the jews who probably rationalized the nazis at that time.

Just to list what Norway has done against jews again:

• A former prime minister criticized Obama for appointing Rahm Emanuel to his cabinet because he is a jew.
• Norway made it illegal for jews to kosher their meat. The former prime minister when this law was passed when asked about it said "we didn't invite the jews".
• Norway openly and fully supports Hamas. Not only an organization that wants to destroy all of Israel, but targets civilians for attacks in order to spread terror.
• Norway universities refused to let Alan Dershowitz speak only because he is moderate pro-Israel. Anti-Israel speakers are readily sought and speak there.
• Norway collaborated with the nazis with the rounding up and mass murder of jews.

Norway is the enemy of the jews.

Dude, the Nazi regime was almost a century ago. Most of the offenders are long dead.

One was just the Prime Minister's opinion. Nothing more. HE may be antisemitic but that's hardly any indication of anything else.

Two don't indicate "enemy" to me. At worst, they indicate ignorance.

As for supporting a terrorist group, well... what does the King think?

It disgusts me that so called jews defend these actions. They ought to be ashamed of themselves and are an embarassment.

So only Orthodox Jews are real Jews, and all other Jews are not really Jews at all?

 

[Flankerl]

to see so called "jews"

Oh hi Mr Lueger. How are you?

 

[CMike]

You might want to rethink the knee-jerk assumptions of what I and others care about.

After all, I like Norway, and all of Scandinavia. As with any other countries I like, if I hear accusations that there's some kind of injustice going on there, I want to know about it.

So far, you've demonstrated that there's at least one major injustice going on in the universities.

The not alowing koshering of food is a bigger injustice.

It doesn't allow orthodox jews to eat meat. That has a much greater effect on the jews than the anti-semitism at universities.

Another has given some statistics that point to the fact that antisemitism in Norway among the people (that is, the ones who really matter) is worryingly high.

I absolutely care about that.

These are my kin-brothers, dude. There may not be a whole lot I can do about them, since I don't live in Norway and am not directly of Norwegian descent, but it does mean there's a lot to be concerned about.

I am much more concerned about the anti-semitism of the government, universities, and the media. They are the ones with power.

I was a vegetarian for a few months, as it turns out. In the states, it's entirely possible to get all the nutrients one needs from a purely vegetarian diet. Is such a thing not possible in Norway?

If because the country is so far north that a healthy vegetarian diet is impossible, THEN I will share your sentiments as something justified insofar as this being a problem. But there's still nothing to indicate Norway is akin to Nazi Germany, here.

I'm sure people may be able to get their nutrients with bread, water, and vitamins.

However, most people would consider not being able to eat meat to be a great hardship. That's it's illegal to kosher animals make the law vile.

I'll get to it a little later.

My religion requires virtually nothing beyond the Nine Noble Virtues, and even those are subject to interpretation and adjustment as needed, as they're not Godlaws. The only two Godlaws I'm aware of are not locking up the Gods in houses like they were prisoners and so perform sacred rights outside, and not to commit hubris.

But the sword is the symbol of freedom and the freeman. Those who didn't carry swords were slaves, which meant you were worth even less than the African American slaves in America.

Can you tell me what the difference between "Jewish tradition" and "Jewish law" are?

I'll be happy to. I am going to post an article explaining it, but I wanted to add some comments first.

Jewish tradition is having a party for Purim and eating donuts on Chanukah.

Kosher laws are laws. They mean that jews must follow them if they are keeping the Torah.

Koshering food is specifically done in a manner that creates the least pain for the animal.

In fact I asked a neruologist in my synagogue today about the potential pain, and the pain would be less than a second. Stunning a cow would cause pain too. In fact, it would be well longer than properly doing a kosher slaugher for a cow.

Norway are hypocrites. They allow hunting and it's very popular in Norway.

An animal dying from a bullet wound is far far FARRR more painful than from the kosher slaughtering of a cow.

Once again, a very sharp blade must be used, and it must be done in one motion.

Here is the article.

What is Shechita? - Kosher

Shechita is the Jewish religious and humane method of slaughtering permitted animals and poultry for food.

It is the only method of producing kosher meat and poultry allowed by Jewish law. It is a most humane method as explained below.


There is no ritual involved in shechita.

It is a cardinal tenet of the Jewish faith that the laws of shechita were divinely given to Moses at Mount Sinai (Deuteronomy XII:21); the rules governing shechita are codified and defined and are as binding and valued today as ever and they ensure a swift and painless dispatch of the animal. Infringing the laws of shechita renders the meat unconditionally forbidden as food to Jews.

The time hallowed practice of shechita, marked as it is by compassion and consideration for the welfare of the animal, has been a central pillar in the sustaining of Jewish life for millennia.


Shechita is performed by a highly trained shochet. The procedure consists of a rapid and expert transverse incision with an instrument of surgical sharpness (a chalaf), which severs the major structures and vessels at the neck.

This causes an instant drop in blood pressure in the brain and immediately results in the irreversible cessation of consciousness. Thus, shechita renders the animal insensible to pain, dispatches and exsanguinates in a swift action, and fulfils all the requirements of humaneness and compassion.


It is noteworthy that since 1928, shechita has been protected by various enactments of primary and secondary legislation. Article 9 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, now incorporated into British law, protects freedom of religious belief and practice. In the United States and Canada, the humaneness of shechita is acknowledged in the Humane Methods of Animal Slaughter Legislation.

Dude, the Nazi regime was almost a century ago. Most of the offenders are long dead.

One was just the Prime Minister's opinion. Nothing more. HE may be antisemitic but that's hardly any indication of anything else.

Two don't indicate "enemy" to me. At worst, they indicate ignorance.

As for supporting a terrorist group, well... what does the King think?

So only Orthodox Jews are real Jews, and all other Jews are not really Jews at all?

That two former Norweigan prime ministers made such hateful remarks about jews indicates what the government believes.

Also Norway fully supports Hamas, an organization dedicated to destroying Israel, and implementing terrorist attacks against civilians.

You may be able to excuse one of these things. However, put them all together, and it shows a systemic hatred of jews among the Norweigan government, universities, and media.

 

[CMike]

Oh hi Mr Lueger. How are you?

I don't get it.

Must be an inside joke.

 

[Riverwolf]

The not alowing koshering of food is a bigger injustice.

It doesn't allow orthodox jews to eat meat. That has a much greater effect on the jews than the anti-semitism at universities.

I disagree, but we have differing priorities, it seems.

I am much more concerned about the anti-semitism of the government, universities, and the media. They are the ones with power.

Power, but they ultimately don't matter in the grand scheme of things. England was ruled over by Rome, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Normans, but the bulk of the population and culture remains the native Briton.

...then again... England never had to face an equivalent to King Olaf the Lawbreaker...

...so, yeah, continue your concerns with those in power.

I'm sure people may be able to get their nutrients with bread, water, and vitamins.

Dude, there's these things called fruits and vegetables.

Ever hear of Quinoa? It's a superfood that will give you all the protein you need without ever needing to eat meat.

However, most people would consider not being able to eat meat to be a great hardship.

In America, maybe.

I'll be happy to. I am going to post an article explaining it, but I wanted to add some comments first.

Jewish tradition is having a party for Purim and eating donuts on Chanukah.

Kosher laws are laws. They mean that jews must follow them if they are keeping the Torah.

Okay, stop right there. Aren't there tons of laws in the Torah that even the most orthodox of Jews don't follow anymore? I mean I've never heard of anyone killing rebellious children.

Koshering food is specifically done in a manner that creates the least pain for the animal.

In fact I asked a neruologist in my synagogue today about the potential pain, and the pain would be less than a second. Stunning a cow would cause pain too. In fact, it would be well longer than properly doing a kosher slaugher for a cow.

Okies, fair enough.

Norway are hypocrites. They allow hunting and it's very popular in Norway.

Quite hypocritical, sure, but a completely separate issue.

An animal dying from a bullet wound is far far FARRR more painful than from the kosher slaughtering of a cow.

No arguments from me on that issue, believe me.

That two former Norweigan prime ministers made such hateful remarks about jews indicates what the government believes.

Is every single member of the Norwegian government supposed to agree with the Prime Minister by law?

Also Norway fully supports Hamas, an organization dedicated to destroying Israel, and implementing terrorist attacks against civilians.

A problem, yes, but every country (except maybe Switzerland) has supported various terrorist groups over the years.

That's not excusing Norway; that's saying that it's not unique.

You may be able to excuse one of these things. However, put them all together, and it shows a systemic hatred of jews among the Norweigan government, universities, and media.

Then combat it by educating Norwegians. I've spoken to people from Norway, and they all come across as some of the most polite, intelligent, and well-spoken people I've EVER talked to.

Trust me: the people have power over the media, government, and universities.

And I'll give you a free piece of ammunition for those who say they never invited the Jews to live in Norway: that may be so, but they never invited the Christians in, either.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't get it.

Must be an inside joke.

I think it might be a reference to this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lueger

...and if that's the case, I still don't get it.

 

[mycorrhiza]

Norway are hypocrites. They allow hunting and it's very popular in Norway.

Shechita is the Jewish religious and humane method of slaughtering permitted animals and poultry for food.

Yes, it's hypocritical that they allow hunting, but not shechita. However, that doesn't mean that they should legalize shechita, it means that they should ban hunting.

There is no such thing as humane slaughter. If it's not humane to do towards innocent humans, then it's not humane to do towards innocent animals of other species.

If Norway is anything like Sweden when it comes to the range of food products, then it's really easy to be a vegetarian there. If kosher slaughter is about being humane towards the animals, then what's more humane than not slaughtering them at all? Does not the first book of the Torah say that the original state of humanity was vegetarianism?

 

[Flankerl]

I think it might be a reference to this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Lueger

...and if that's the case, I still don't get it.

Lueger famously coined that phrase that he decides who's a jew. You know like CMike.

 

[CMike]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMike
The not alowing koshering of food is a bigger injustice.

It doesn't allow orthodox jews to eat meat. That has a much greater effect on the jews than the anti-semitism at universities.

I disagree, but we have differing priorities, it seems.


It's really not your opinion that matters. Not even mine.

It's the opinion of the jews in Norway that have to deal with this.

I mentioned this earlier.

We had the Chabad orthodox rabbi of Norway speak at your synagogue . He stated the issues that jews are facing there.

In fact Alan Dershowitz stayed at his place during his diasterous visit to Norway.

Not allowing kosher food is a big problem with orthodox jews there.

They can only import small quanities of kosher meat.

Therefore, they have to start preparing months before a holiday to have kosher meat.

There is absolutely no reason for them to go through that.


Quote:
I am much more concerned about the anti-semitism of the government, universities, and the media. They are the ones with power.
Power, but they ultimately don't matter in the grand scheme of things. England was ruled over by Rome, the Anglo-Saxons, and the Normans, but the bulk of the population and culture remains the native Briton.

...then again... England never had to face an equivalent to King Olaf the Lawbreaker...

...so, yeah, continue your concerns with those in power.

However, it's those in power that create the laws. The people in power created the law against allowing kosher meat.

It's the people in power that won't allow a pro-Israel speaker to speak in the Norway Universities.

It's the people in power that are supporting Hamas in their quest to do terrorist acts.

It's the people in power that only print anti-Israel propoganda in their newspapers.

It's the people in power who are brainwashing (allowing one side) regarding Israel in the media and universities.

The power in power have created a lot of mischief.



Quote:
I'm sure people may be able to get their nutrients with bread, water, and vitamins.
Dude, there's these things called fruits and vegetables.

Ever hear of Quinoa? It's a superfood that will give you all the protein you need without ever needing to eat meat.

That's very nice. However, the vast majority of people prefer meat. They shouldn't be forced to eat vegetables because of anti-semitic laws.

Quote:
I'll be happy to. I am going to post an article explaining it, but I wanted to add some comments first.

Jewish tradition is having a party for Purim and eating donuts on Chanukah.

Kosher laws are laws. They mean that jews must follow them if they are keeping the Torah.
Okay, stop right there. Aren't there tons of laws in the Torah that even the most orthodox of Jews don't follow anymore? I mean I've never heard of anyone killing rebellious children.

No. That's beause you don't understand the issue.

It refers to a child that will committ murder.

Also the criteria to execute someone is so high in judaism that it's virtually impossible to do.

For example.

You need two witnesss to see the act.

Those witnessess had to warn the person not to do the act and the consequences seconds before he committs it.

If the entire court things the person is guilty that person doesn't get the death penalty.

A jewish court that imposes the death penalty once in 70 years is considered a blood thirsty court.

All the laws in the Torah are still in effect.






Quote:
Norway are hypocrites. They allow hunting and it's very popular in Norway.
Quite hypocritical, sure, but a completely separate issue.

It's not a seperate issue all.

The question is why should Norway have the law at all?

Sechting an animal is the most humane way to kill the cow.

If Norway truely was so hung up about animals suffering they would ban hunting. If an animal is killed during hunting he/she suffers a great deal more than by a kosher slaughter, which is specfically done in a way to create the least pain.

The law effects harshly effects one group...jews.

There is no real reason for the law. However, it causes create problems for the jews. Norway won't even entertain the harship it causes for jews.

So either they are maniacal and/or they just don't care about the consequences to the jews.



Quote:
That two former Norweigan prime ministers made such hateful remarks about jews indicates what the government believes.
Is every single member of the Norwegian government supposed to agree with the Prime Minister by law?
The point is that the prime ministers represent the country.

Two Norweigan prime ministers made hateful remarks about jews. It's a reflection of the Norweigan government.


Quote:
Also Norway fully supports Hamas, an organization dedicated to destroying Israel, and implementing terrorist attacks against civilians.
A problem, yes, but every country (except maybe Switzerland) has supported various terrorist groups over the years.

That's not excusing Norway; that's saying that it's not unique.

That other people are doing it doesn't execuse what Norway is doing.

They are supporting a terrorist organiation that targets civilians for attack. Then when Israel defends itself against these attacks, they condemn Israel.



Quote:
You may be able to excuse one of these things. However, put them all together, and it shows a systemic hatred of jews among the Norweigan government, universities, and media.
Then combat it by educating Norwegians. I've spoken to people from Norway, and they all come across as some of the most polite, intelligent, and well-spoken people I've EVER talked to.

Alan Dershowitz tried. No University would let him talk. This is a very big speaker, that usually commands a lot of money. They wouldn't let him talk for free.

Oh except the one university that wanted him to speak about the OJ case as long as he promised not to mention Israel.


Trust me: the people have power over the media, government, and universities.

You can speak but you won't be heard unless you have a platform.

Two his credit Dershowitz did speak to a couple of student groups. No university officials or staff showed up.