Norway -one of the most anti semitic countries on earth

[I.S.L.A.M617]

***Post deleted***

Not at all... You just didn't answer the question, because you know your answer will be "no, they shouldn't accommodate every religion", and don't wish to sound as discriminatory as you're accusing the Norwegians of being.

 

[mycorrhiza]

They don't need to bleed out. Their throat is cut in one motion.

They have no pain other than the second or two of the cut.

Stunning cause some pain as well. Most likely, a lot more than a quick throat cut.

Well, if their throat gets cut, then they will bleed quite much, wont they? I'm pretty sure being aware of getting your throat cut and bleeding a lot is mentally stressful.

A second or two is enough to ban it. If it takes eight seconds to reach unconsciousness and gives one second of pain, then it still causes both pain and mental stress.

Some forms of stunning do, yes, and they should also be banned. The captive bolt pistol seems to induce instant unconsciousness and be painless, while electrocution and carbon dioxide seem to be slower, more unreliable and more stressful.

Banning the slower and more unreliable methods is a start. Hopefully all methods of murdering innocent animals will be banned in the future.

 

[Me Myself]

Well, if their throat gets cut, then they will bleed quite much, wont they? I'm pretty sure being aware of getting your throat cut and bleeding a lot is mentally stressful.

A second or two is enough to ban it. If it takes eight seconds to reach unconsciousness and gives one second of pain, then it still causes both pain and mental stress.

Some forms of stunning do, yes, and they should also be banned. The captive bolt pistol seems to induce instant unconsciousness and be painless, while electrocution and carbon dioxide seem to be slower, more unreliable and more stressful.

Banning the slower and more unreliable methods is a start. Hopefully all methods of murdering innocent animals will be banned in the future.

Agreed.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Assuming the animal is hung upside down, it takes about 6 minutes to bleed out from a neck wound.

 

[Me Myself]

Again, AFAIK, eating kosher meat is not a requirement.

NOT eating non kosher meat is the requirement.

the reason this is an issue is because the country is not making an exception to it`s (already arbitrary) policy about killing animals for gastronomical pleasure.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Again, AFAIK, eating kosher meat is not a requirement.

NOT eating non kosher meat is the requirement.

the reason this is an issue is because the country is not making an exception to it`s (already arbitrary) policy about killing animals for gastronomical pleasure.

Agreed. If it were up to me personally, I would allow kosher slaughter; I have no concern for the feelings of animals. However, the law is the law, so if you feel that strongly about it, either go vegan or don't live in Norway.

 

[Assad91]

There is not safety of the animal.

It's going to die. It's a cow.

The Norway prime minister(s) made it clear that he/they don't care about the jews and their religon

See, some people are not so sadistic, and care for the rights of the animal.

That may be because orthodox jews believe in their religion.

If muslims don't follow their own religion and don't have the courage of convictions they are in a pretty sad state.

It doesn't affect the the halal status of the animal. It's not out of a lack of conviction.

But it IS funny that you attack the status of religious convictions of Muslims, right after being pointed out of lying to cause tensions with Muslims>

 

[Me Myself]

There is not safety of the animal.

It's going to die. It's a cow.

You are an animal that will die too.

and

The Norway prime minister(s) made it clear that he/they don't care about the jews and their religon

You can`t be anti-semitic if you don`t care about judaism or jews. You need active opposition for the "anti" to make sense.

I would also like to point you to some jewish people that seem way more compassive and caring towards other animals:

[youtube]pCoVvn_8R_0[/youtube]
Vegetarianism in Jewish Thought - YouTube

 

[CMike]

The animal has no pain.

Properly Slaughter a Cow Under the Kosher Method Shechitah - wikiHow

 

[Me Myself]

The animal has no pain.

Properly Slaughter a Cow Under the Kosher Method Shechitah - wikiHow

do you understand that killing an animal for consumption without stunning him first is against the law yes or no?

Do you understand that you are requesting an exception done to the law on basis of religion yes or no?

 

[ryobi]

Norway is one of the most anti-Semitic countries? I guess my great grandfather, as well as many of my other relatives who died in the resistance fighting the Nazis in Norway, must have been an aberration?

 

[Riverwolf]

No they can't be accomodated.

Carrying a sword could be considered dangerous.

The specifics of how jews slaughter meat effects no one else other than the person doing the killing, the person eating it, and the cow.

Well, swords are much safer than guns, which can be carried legally with a license. Therefore, I could easily cry anti-paganism for this gray area, just as you are crying antisemitism for this relatively minor thing. (Though for the record, I fully agree with you when it comes to the universities thing; people should be allowed to voice whatever their opinions are so long as they're not causing a ruckus.)

It's not just a cow. It's a living, breathing creature subject to humane rights. If I remember the Torah correctly (it's been years since I read it, and I didn't read it all that closely, so I could be way off, here; forgive me if I am), but isn't that the reason why kosher slaughtering is there in the first place: out of consideration for the animal?

 

[Riverwolf]

The animal has no pain.

Properly Slaughter a Cow Under the Kosher Method Shechitah - wikiHow

From the link:
Cut the esophagus, trachea, carotid arteries, and jugular veins in one quick incision.
The incision must not at all pull or tear. If done correctly, the animal will die within 2 seconds.


Two seconds is too long. It should die instantly.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

From the link:
Cut the esophagus, trachea, carotid arteries, and jugular veins in one quick incision.
The incision must not at all pull or tear. If done correctly, the animal will die within 2 seconds.


Two seconds is too long. It should die instantly.

[youtube]0tdsL4kvp_I[/youtube]
World Smallest Violin - YouTube
Oh, come on...

 

[Riverwolf]

[youtube]0tdsL4kvp_I[/youtube]
World Smallest Violin - YouTube
Oh, come on...

The animation looks terrible... not that I'd know for sure, since it doesn't look like a worthy 9 seconds.

In any case, let me specify: I'm playing devil's advocate, here, for the animal rights groups that would encourage stunning even in kosher rituals.

I, myself, am in favor of allowing Jews to practice their rituals as they please, but am also not Norwegian, and so have no say in their laws, and this is a minor issue.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I don't disagree with the OP on any moral grounds. My only beef (no pun intended) is that the law is the law, and it shouldn't have to change in order to accommodate religious beliefs.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't disagree with the OP on any moral grounds. My only beef (no pun intended) is that the law is the law, and it shouldn't have to change in order to accommodate religious beliefs.

More or less my views as well, at least the law shouldn't change when there's far more pressing issues at hand.

 

[Flankerl]

There is not safety of the animal.

It's going to die. It's a cow.

Yeah uhm that attitude is pretty much anti-jewish.

Of course the animal is going to die, its going to get slaughtered after all.
But the whole point of the quick cut is a quick death.


What you completely fail to understand is that gentiles(apart from the muslims) dont see it that way. You can rant about antisemitism all day long but it wont change the fact that they see our way of doing things as not nice.

I have good and close gentile friends who think that Judaism is very nice religion but they dont like the aspect of the slaughter.

Such is life. End of story.


Now be a good oppressed american jew and write an online article about evil antisemitism lurking behind every corner.

 

[CMike]

Yeah uhm that attitude is pretty much anti-jewish.

Of course the animal is going to die, its going to get slaughtered after all.
But the whole point of the quick cut is a quick death.


What you completely fail to understand is that gentiles(apart from the muslims) dont see it that way. You can rant about antisemitism all day long but it wont change the fact that they see our way of doing things as not nice.

I have good and close gentile friends who think that Judaism is very nice religion but they dont like the aspect of the slaughter.

Such is life. End of story.


Now be a good oppressed american jew and write an online article about evil antisemitism lurking behind every corner.

What do you mean by "we"?

Since they made a law that bans the practice of "our" religion they have a duty to examine it.

Also, they have a duty to examine it instead of just giving the "we didn't invite the jews" arguement that the prime minister did.

The koshering of animals is only one of the many incidents of the vile hatred toward jews displayed by Norway.

I am sorry if this is unimportant to you. Actually I'm not.

 

[CMike]

I don't disagree with the OP on any moral grounds. My only beef (no pun intended) is that the law is the law, and it shouldn't have to change in order to accommodate religious beliefs.

The law is wrong.

And yes it should change based on religious beliefs.

Laws should have an actual purpose.

This one doesn't.

The cow killed using the kosher method doesn't have pain. It's killed instantly.

Stunning would cause more pain than the koshering process.

If you are going to limit people from practicing their religion the government needs a good and pressing reason.