Now that the FDA has approved the vaccine has it changed your mind?

[Revoltingest]

Then the whole of unsubstantiated holistic medicine.

I once had commercial tenants with a Reiki business.
I'd love to ask them if they treat for Covid 19. They
were an interesting bunch....but they paid their rent.

For those who don't know of Reiki, imagine getting
a massage without any physical contract. Only
your energy field is manipulated. It's Japanese.

 

[Friend of Mara]

View attachment 54282I must be the brainwashed on the right.

Yeah. If you seriously wanna have that conversation I'm down.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I once had commercial tenants with a Reiki business.
I'd love to ask them if they treat for Covid 19. They
were an interesting bunch....but they paid their rent.

I'm sure they were. Holistic medicine is a large net though. Which is why I specified unsubstantiated holistic medicine. Old timey holistic medicine a lot of the times does have great effects though probably out done by most modern medicine. Then there is the neutral holistic medicine that doesn't really help but the placebo effect is a hell of a drug on its own. Then lastly we have the actually harmful "alternative medicine" that leads to people dying.

Then there is also the "medicine" and "supplements" that are pushed claiming to be hyper scientific but shunned because they are too good. This probably falls under the snake oil salesmen archetype.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm sure they were. Holistic medicine is a large net though. Which is why I specified unsubstantiated holistic medicine. Old timey holistic medicine a lot of the times does have great effects though probably out done by most modern medicine. Then there is the neutral holistic medicine that doesn't really help but the placebo effect is a hell of a drug on its own. Then lastly we have the actually harmful "alternative medicine" that leads to people dying.

Then there is also the "medicine" and "supplements" that are pushed claiming to be hyper scientific but shunned because they are too good. This probably falls under the snake oil salesmen archetype.

I like your gay cup.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then the whole of unsubstantiated holistic medicine.

How does this relate to the government finding evidence to blame the unvaxxed and half unvaxed don't believe in conspiracies?

If you are a statement for discussion you need to be open to discuss it. That's the idea of proper discussion. If you make a statement, claim, etc you have to support it.

Can you give examples?

I know you didn't say it just because, right?

 

[Friend of Mara]

How does this relate to the government finding evidence to blame the unvaxxed and half unvaxed don't believe in conspiracies?

If you are a statement for discussion you need to be open to discuss it. That's the idea of proper discussion. If you make a statement, claim, etc you have to support it.

Can you give examples?

I know you didn't say it just because, right?

Perhaps I misunderstood your question. The claim seemed to be that unvaccinated people were informed and didn't believe in obviously false things. That the majority were not being led astray buy falsehoods. This is laughable.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Then the whole of unsubstantiated holistic medicine.

You mean the methods that don’t cost much and work without making a person dependent on the medication for life? We use those methods and they do work when you need them

 

[Wandering Monk]

New data from the UK comparing risk of hospitalization for vaccinated and unvaccinated groups comparing risk between Alpha and Delta variants.

Unvaccinated were 2.6 times more likely to be hospitalized with the Delta than with Alpha.

Vaccinated showed no difference in hospitalizations between the variants.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps I misunderstood your question. The claim seemed to be that unvaccinated people were informed and didn't believe in obviously false things. That the majority were not being led astray buy falsehoods. This is laughable.

It was saying that there are a lot of unvax that most don't make decisions based on misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Based on your wishful thinking comment I asked that you prove me wrong and list support based on that statement.

--

I can't imagine anyone making medical decisions based on conspiracies. From treatments to meds people gain facts from experts they know and make decisions that way.

A person can disagree with their decision but they don't have to justify it to themselves they must be ignorant or misinformed. It is what it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

New data from the UK comparing risk of hospitalization for vaccinated and unvaccinated groups comparing risk between Alpha and Delta variants.

Unvaccinated were 2.6 times more likely to be hospitalized with the Delta than with Alpha.

Vaccinated showed no difference in hospitalizations between the variants.

I wonder how this data comports with experience elsewhere.
Ref...
How S.F. hospitalization rates compare for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated
Partial excerpt....
The data show that San Francisco is averaging 176 new cases per day, which is 10 times higher than the average in early June, before the state reopened and cases were at a low point. The average case rate per 100,000 for the vaccinated is 16.2, compared to 36.8 for the unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated are still suffering the brunt of the surge — case rates among the unvaccinated are more than double that of vaccinated individuals, and hospitalization rates among the unvaccinated are eight times higher.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I wonder how this data comports with experience elsewhere.
Ref...
How S.F. hospitalization rates compare for vaccinated vs. unvaccinated
Partial excerpt....
The data show that San Francisco is averaging 176 new cases per day, which is 10 times higher than the average in early June, before the state reopened and cases were at a low point. The average case rate per 100,000 for the vaccinated is 16.2, compared to 36.8 for the unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated are still suffering the brunt of the surge — case rates among the unvaccinated are more than double that of vaccinated individuals, and hospitalization rates among the unvaccinated are eight times higher.

Not certain. The UK had different protocols for vaccination. They waited longer between doses than in the US and Israel.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah. If you seriously wanna have that conversation I'm down.

Yeah, do it, probably not today though.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So when Covid has run it’s course what are you going to do with your vaccine card? Or are they going to keep this going indefinitely? Seems like the card will be obsolete.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Soooo... anyone want to have the Ivermectin discussion?

 

[Friend of Mara]

You mean the methods that don’t cost much and work without making a person dependent on the medication for life? We use those methods and they do work when you need them

It depends on the holistic medicine. Some have effects that are positive. Some have effects that are neutral some are just totally bunk. Its a wide wide brush to be painted with. Its why I specified unsubstantiated holistic medicines.

Yeah, do it, probably not today though.

Whenever you are ready.

It was saying that there are a lot of unvax that most don't make decisions based on misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Based on your wishful thinking comment I asked that you prove me wrong and list support based on that statement.

--

I can't imagine anyone making medical decisions based on conspiracies. From treatments to meds people gain facts from experts they know and make decisions that way.

A person can disagree with their decision but they don't have to justify it to themselves they must be ignorant or misinformed. It is what it is.

With the conversations I've had with you I can tell you simply won't accept what I say and I have learned to live with that. I guess I'll say it anyway.

If you are choosing not to be vaccinated and don't have a medical reason why you are not being vaccinated you either don't understand the severity of the situation (ignorance), believe in some way that the current information we have is wrong (misinformed) or potentially have a total conspiracy on your hand that acts as a rebuttal to the whole situation. In all my time here I have not come across a single argument against not getting vaccinated that didn't fall into one of those three categories.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It depends on the holistic medicine. Some have effects that are positive. Some have effects that are neutral some are just totally bunk.

For sure! There are some crazy methods out there

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you are choosing not to be vaccinated and don't have a medical reason why you are not being vaccinated you either don't understand the severity of the situation (ignorance), believe in some way that the current information we have is wrong (misinformed) or potentially have a total conspiracy on your hand that acts as a rebuttal to the whole situation. In all my time here I have not come across a single argument against not getting vaccinated that didn't fall into one of those three categories.

Why are you calling it a conspiracy when there are good reasons not to get vaccinated with a treatment that isn’t really a vaccine? The VAERS system is run and monitored by the CDC, under reported adverse effects, meaning there are a lot more that aren’t being reported and people are making it seem like the many reported issues are nothing. Many good doctors have sounded the alarm about these so-called vaccines, who understand immunology and medications, who have stellar careers and are now being blackballed and called quacks for speaking out and warning about them. Anyone who has had Covid is naturally immune and has a broad spectrum immunity against Covid, as in my case. Covid will run it’s course, but you will never get rid of the flu or common cold, once you start injecting yourself and become dependent on these you will have continue the rest of your life, I don’t like that idea of being a slave to that and would rather have a healthy immune system. Seems like with the whole environmental push that people would feel the same about their bodies but apparently not.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Whenever you are ready.

Go for it, I will answer
First, do you believe MAGA was a Trump thing and that the majority of people who supported him blindly followed him?
I don’t, MAGA is what ALL our politicians should be about. Any leader of a nation should be about making their Country great, strong and good. That’s why Trump is popular and Democrats are not. All Democrats have are manipulation with bad policy and experts at manipulating language, people and cheating the system. Experts in propaganda.
When I say Democrats, I mean politicians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It depends on the holistic medicine. Some have effects that are positive. Some have effects that are neutral some are just totally bunk. Its a wide wide brush to be painted with. Its why I specified unsubstantiated holistic medicines.

Whenever you are ready.


With the conversations I've had with you I can tell you simply won't accept what I say and I have learned to live with that. I guess I'll say it anyway.

If you are choosing not to be vaccinated and don't have a medical reason why you are not being vaccinated you either don't understand the severity of the situation (ignorance), believe in some way that the current information we have is wrong (misinformed) or potentially have a total conspiracy on your hand that acts as a rebuttal to the whole situation. In all my time here I have not come across a single argument against not getting vaccinated that didn't fall into one of those three categories.

There are a couple here that aren't taking it because they research facts and no second hand knowledge. Quite a few doesn't mean all.

Side effects and adverse reactions, for example, are good reasons to not take the vaccine.

It's with anything that has to do with health.

I mean you can justify it for yourself but the fact remains this isn't for the vast minority.

People who are exempt can spread the virus too. What's the difference if it were not political (attacking what you guys call refusers and not the unvaccinated)?

Number for clarity

1. The severity of the situation to a person depends on where they live, their lifestyle, and whether they are confronted with COVID offline. A lot of our choices I hope are based on personal experiences not just stats and averages.

2. Not all people are misinformed. They just made a decision you disagree with. The two don't connect.

For example,
I disagree with JW not using blood transfusion to save loved ones but my profound disagreement doesn't mean they were misinformed about their loved ones medical situation.

I can justify it to make my views seem like facts, but it's quite unnecessary unless I have an ax to grind with every JW out there.

It's the exact same logic with COVID vaccines.

4. Its a logical fallacy to apply the group of unvax you talk to (hopefully not online-I hope) and use it as an excuse for every other person's motives.


--

A..Can you tell me how not taking the vax because of side effects and adverse reactions are bad reasons to not take the vaccine?

B. Can you explain how the exempt doesn't put people in danger of getting COVID.

 

[ecco]

I never said the vaccine causes cancer. I said I hope taking it was not a stupid idea because I do not know the long term side effects, and hopefully, one of them is not a heightened risk of cancer.

Thanks for the clarification. I've seen nothing that would suggest that the vaccine has any correlation with any other diseases, including cancer.