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Ohio Governor's Transgender Decision

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
icehorse said:
It's a long thread, so you might have missed my explanation. So I'll try it again, but one step at a time:

Do you agree that a lot of kids with GD are not trans, but ultimately discover that they are gay?
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What do you mean by "a lot"? If you mean a high percentage then I would sincerely doubt that. Citation needed.
 
Heyo

Heyo

Veteran Member
icehorse said:
That's a complex question, but as a starting point I would say we should look at the model used by the best healthcare systems in Europe. They tend to have a central, medical authority, which the US does not have.
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You mean like the FDA the AMA and the APA?
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
icehorse said:
It's a long thread, so you might have missed my explanation.
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I read your "explanation". It came across as crap.

icehorse said:
So I'll try it again, but one step at a time:

Do you agree that a lot of kids with GD are not trans, but ultimately discover that they are gay?
Click to expand...

Trans and gay aren't mutually exclusive.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Heyo said:
You mean like the FDA the AMA and the APA?
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The AMA and APA are business associations, not central medical authorities. The FDA is about food and drugs, not medical practices.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
It's not on you to educate anyone. It's on you to demonstrate that your misrepresentations here are rooted in sincere ignorance and not willful hate.
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Get back to me if you decide to discuss this in good faith, otherwise, HNY
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
icehorse said:
This internet search took me almost no time at all:

https://www.jaacap.org/article/S0890-8567(08)60142-2/fulltext

So why do you think it's on me to educate you? (And BTW, if you don't like this link you can easily find others)
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Oh my, it is not up to you to educate me, it is up to you to support your claims properly. I was doing you a favor since if you do not support your claims they can be dismissed without evidence.

So let's look at your study. First off it is rather small an incomplete, nor does it really address the topic that we are discussing. For the purposes of this topic they started with ages that were far too young. Though GD may begin early, we are not concerned with the people for this until they are of age where they would begin to take puberty blocking drugs. That is at ages from ten to twelve at the earlierst:

www.mayoclinic.org

Puberty blockers for transgender and gender-diverse youth

Understand how puberty blockers work to suppress puberty. Learn about their benefits, side effects and long-term effects.
www.mayoclinic.org www.mayoclinic.org

Let's say that the results of this very limited study are accurate. Even if that was the case it does not apply because you have no idea of when those that lost their GD did so. For example if 90% of those that lost their GD before the age of 10 then the study does not help you at all. There are just too many unanswered questions in one small study whose accuracy we do not even know. This is an example of very bad medicine on your part. You could still be right, but that study does not really help you very much at all.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
Oh my, it is not up to you to educate me, it is up to you to support your claims properly. I was doing you a favor since if you do not support your claims they can be dismissed without evidence.

So let's look at your study. First off it is rather small an incomplete, nor does it really address the topic that we are discussing. For the purposes of this topic they started with ages that were far too young. Though GD may begin early, we are not concerned with the people for this until they are of age where they would begin to take puberty blocking drugs. That is at ages from ten to twelve at the earlierst:

www.mayoclinic.org

Puberty blockers for transgender and gender-diverse youth

Understand how puberty blockers work to suppress puberty. Learn about their benefits, side effects and long-term effects.
www.mayoclinic.org www.mayoclinic.org

Let's say that the results of this very limited study are accurate. Even if that was the case it does not apply because you have no idea of when those that lost their GD did so. For example if 90% of those that lost their GD before the age of 10 then the study does not help you at all. There are just too many unanswered questions in one small study whose accuracy we do not even know. This is an example of very bad medicine on your part. You could still be right, but that study does not really help you very much at all.
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Again, I found that link in about 30 seconds.

So we circle back to the question, who is making the extraordinary claims? I was doing you a favor to get you started in educating yourself on what is an important aspect of this issue. Now you have a new idea in your head. Will you pursue it, or will you disregard it?

You seem keen to defend GAC, but what if GAC is at the expense of gay kids, will you still be so keen? I would think that if you were sincerely interested in defending GAC you'd want to get yourself up to speed on this concern, no?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
icehorse said:
Again, I found that link in about 30 seconds.

So we circle back to the question, who is making the extraordinary claims? I was doing you a favor to get you started in educating yourself on what is an important aspect of this issue. Now you have a new idea in your head. Will you pursue it, or will you disregard it?

You seem keen to defend GAC, but what if GAC is at the expense of gay kids, will you still be so keen? I would think that if you were sincerely interested in defending GAC you'd want to get yourself up to speed on this concern, no?
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It does not matter how long it took you.

Debating 101, the person that makes the claim is the one that has to defend it.

Second, your article did not really help you very much at all. No accurate conclusions can be drawn from it.

And no, I defend what is best for the person in nee of medical care. That is all. It is not up to the state to decide that. You also keep forgetting that the patient will have gone through counseling and testing before they are given puberty blockers. They are not handed out like candy. You need strong evidence to oppose the care that they need and you brought back a piece of Kleenex.
 
icehorse

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
Debating 101, the person that makes the claim is the one that has to defend it.
Click to expand...

Yes, and you're implicitly claiming that it's rare for gay kids to experience GD. THAT is an extraordinary claim :)

I just did a search on: "how many gay kids experience gender dysphoria" and I got a LOT of hits. Here's another article that lists five more studies:

Research evidence: most gender dysphoric children grow up to be gay or lesbian

Subduction Zone said:
You also keep forgetting that the patient will have gone through counseling and testing before they are given puberty blockers.
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I haven't "forgotten" that, I've never discussed it. I wish that what you're saying is true, and I'm sure sometimes it is, but often it is not.

While this study was done in the UK it's probably similar to the situation in the US. There has been a huge surge in GD in recent years and medical expertise in this area is rare. So a lot of kids are NOT getting the kind of thorough help you and I wish they were:

Here's a recent, important report from the UK, I direct you to pages 16 and 17:

Interim report – Cass Review
 
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