Oklahoma Republican Doesn't Like That You Can't Hit Kids ...Even Those with Impairments

[Revoltingest]

Excuse me?

I think he's accepting your post as cromulent.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My mom spanked all her kids. All of us without exception are adults who are more concerned about not getting caught and view rules as more like nonbinding suggestions.

Funny how that works. That what they say you must do to avoid producing a child who grows up into am adult me runs a very high risk of an adult like me. Rebellious, anti-authority, back talk, and basically doing what I want.
The fun thing is science amd really observing the world supports us. Don't hit your kids. Period. We can't hit an adult. It's barbaric to think it's ok to ever hit a child.

Is a Taser or pepper spray an option?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m sorry, you may disagree and that is fine. Psychologist disagree on your point and your personal beliefs holds not weight. The debate and reports can go either way.




I disagree. Maybe if you do it wrong, then you would be correct.

Spanking Can Be an Appropriate Form of Child Discipline

We won’t go wrong if we exercise a firm and consistent hand with a soft and loving heart.

time.com

Findings Give Some Support To Advocates of Spanking (Published 2001)

Dr Diana Baumrind, psychologist known for her classic studies of authoritative, authoritarian and permissive styles of child-rearing, contends that social scientists have overstepped evidence in claiming that spanking causes lasting harm to child; says she does not advocate spanking, but that an...

www.nytimes.com

One possible decent source and it is more than 20 years old. Meanwhile @The Hammer 's source was from 2019. Psychologists learn as time goes by just as all other scientists do. From what I have see it is pretty settled today that spanking is ineffective.

 

[The Hammer]

One possible decent source and it is more than 20 years old. Meanwhile @The Hammer 's source was from 2019. Psychologists learn as time goes by just as all other scientists do. From what I have see it is pretty settled today that spanking is ineffective.

Here is some more:

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/11/666646403/the-american-academy-of-pediatrics-on-spanking-children-dont-do-it-ever

The Spanking Debate Is Over

The empirical, theoretical, and moral arguments against spanking are compelling.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Secret Chief]

Excuse me?

I was just joking (hence the "sarcasm")

 

[Kenny]

Yes, they absolutely are.
hit /hĭt/ intransitive verb
To come into contact with forcefully; strike.
"The car hit the guardrail."
To cause to come into contact.
"She hit her hand against the wall."
To deal a blow to.
"He hit the punching bag."

spank /spăngk/ intransitive verb
To slap on the buttocks with a flat object or with the open hand, as for punishment.

slap /slăp/ noun A sharp blow made with the open hand or with a flat object; a smack.

See how theres no real difference?

Yes… quite a different definition. Now, add love to correction and now I have 3 children who say “I really loved my childhood - they were happy times" and a daughter who said "Dad, because of you I really understand the love of the Father (God)”.

Any tool used incorrectly will produce bad results.

I really don’t like it when a parent angrily says something along the lines of “NO TV AND VIDEO GAMES FOR SEVEN DAYS!” - Really damages the psyche of the children.

 

[Kenny]

One possible decent source and it is more than 20 years old. Meanwhile @The Hammer 's source was from 2019. Psychologists learn as time goes by just as all other scientists do. From what I have see it is pretty settled today that spanking is ineffective.

Yes, psychologist of today really come up with some weird positions like “If you think you have no sex, you have no sex”. Can really trust these people, can’t you? And the PDF still addresses the 2019 issues

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, psychologist of today really come up with some weird positions like “If you think you have no sex, you have no sex”.

Um, what? Who says that and what's it got to do with the topic under discussion?

Can really trust these people, can’t you? And the PDF still addresses the 2019 issues

Nobody is asking you to trust "these people."
Instead, you're being asked to weigh the evidence they've produced. And you seem to want to refuse to do that and acknowledge that the vast majority of evidence collected on this topic over the last half century demonstrates that hitting your kids doesn't produce the results you seem to think it does and in fact shows that hitting kids is harmful to their emotional and psychological development, as many have pointed out to you repeatedly in this thread, and as I have in the past, the last time we had this exact same conversation. You refused to look at the evidence against spanking/hitting kids back then as well.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But it is ok for Democrats to kill a baby that is alive after brith..

Dems block Senate GOP bill on infants surviving abortions

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Democrats on Monday blocked a Republican bill that would have threatened prison for doctors who don't try saving the life of infants born alive during abortions.

apnews.com

It’s different when you hit with intent to kill b/c it’s a baby.

Unpacking this... here's the message I get:

- you disagree strongly with abortion, which is something your enemies support.
- you recognize that beating children is also disagreable, but...
- you're arguing that because you have to put up with disagreable things, so should the people you see as enemies (even though your allies's children would have to put up with the child-beating, too).

Do I understand you correctly?

If so, what other injustices are you willing to endure just for the sake of "owning the libs"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes… quite a different definition. Now, add love to correction and now I have 3 children who say “I really loved my childhood - they were happy times" and a daughter who said "Dad, because of you I really understand the love of the Father (God)”.

Any tool used incorrectly will produce bad results.

I really don’t like it when a parent angrily says something along the lines of “NO TV AND VIDEO GAMES FOR SEVEN DAYS!” - Really damages the psyche of the children.

But it wasn't parental spanking that this thread was about. This is about spanking in public schools.

Even if you think that corporal punishment has a place in the home, the level of trust placed in teachers and school officials to say, effectively, "yes - go ahead and hit my child if you decide it's warranted based on your own judgment" ... it's staggering. Especially when we remember that this debate was about seriously disabled children, some of whom may not be able to effectively communicate what happened if "corporal punishment" went beyond what's allowed or was used "inappropriately".

It's especially bizarre when we remember that the people pushing for this to be allowed are the ones who, by and large, don't trust public schools on most other topics.

You don't trust the school's judgment on which books are okay for your kid to read, but you trust the school's judgment on when to beat your kid? It's ridiculous.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, psychologist of today really come up with some weird positions like “If you think you have no sex, you have no sex”. Can really trust these people, can’t you? And the PDF still addresses the 2019 issues

The same people who would be deciding whether your child should use a name and pronouns at school other than the ones you want (and also deciding whether you should be notified of this) would be the ones deciding if your child should be physically disciplined for their behaviour.

Do you trust this school's judgment? Yes or no.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, psychologist of today really come up with some weird positions like “If you think you have no sex, you have no sex”. Can really trust these people, can’t you? And the PDF still addresses the 2019 issues

I see, you do not like reality.

Yes, for over 90% of us sex is rather simple, or can be. But there are quite a few gay people. I know that you do not like this but they have the same rights that you have. They too have the right to marry the one that they love. And then we get into trans and other people, an even smaller minority but still real. Saying "But they are only 2% of the population" will not make them go away.

 

[Kenny]

Um, what? Who says that and what's it got to do with the topic under discussion?

Nobody is asking you to trust "these people."
Instead, you're being asked to weigh the evidence they've produced. And you seem to want to refuse to do that and acknowledge that the vast majority of evidence collected on this topic over the last half century demonstrates that hitting your kids doesn't produce the results you seem to think it does and in fact shows that hitting kids is harmful to their emotional and psychological development, as many have pointed out to you repeatedly in this thread, and as I have in the past, the last time we had this exact same conversation. You refused to look at the evidence against spanking/hitting kids back then as well.

Like I said, the PDF addressed it.

 

[Kenny]

Unpacking this... here's the message I get:

- you disagree strongly with abortion, which is something your enemies support.
- you recognize that beating children is also disagreable, but...
- you're arguing that because you have to put up with disagreable things, so should the people you see as enemies (even though your allies's children would have to put up with the child-beating, too).

Do I understand you correctly?

If so, what other injustices are you willing to endure just for the sake of "owning the libs"?

I wish I could take time to address your twisted statements.

BUT

I don’t have time for nonesense

 

[Kenny]

But it wasn't parental spanking that this thread was about. This is about spanking in public schools.

OK… nobody has asked me about the public school spanking.

What’s your question?

 

[Kenny]

The same people who would be deciding whether your child should use a name and pronouns at school other than the ones you want (and also deciding whether you should be notified of this) would be the ones deciding if your child should be physically disciplined for their behaviour.

Do you trust this school's judgment? Yes or no.

Now that someone asked me, I’m of the view that correction should be at home.

That being said, if a child cusses out the teacher, they should be sent home. If they hit another child, they should be sent home. And in today’s society, there should be a cop at every school to take them to the principal’s office until they get picked up to go home.

And if they become violent, they should be expelled.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes… quite a different definition.

You must not have really read them then as I highlighted (bolded) the similarities.

Now, add love to

When violence is used against someone it is never love. That is real Orwellian stuff, a parental version of Miniluv where the violence amd torture are carried out in the name of love. It's supposed to guide and correct with love but it's never love when you use physical force/violence against someone.

Any tool used incorrectly will produce bad results

There is no correct way to hit a child. You just don't do it.

I really don’t like it when a parent angrily says something along the lines of “NO TV AND VIDEO GAMES FOR SEVEN DAYS!” - Really damages the psyche of the children.

As has been irepeatedly shown to you, spanking is also damaging, and potentially severely so and ineffective at best with it not really teaching right from wrong but how to not get caught.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Now that someone asked me, I’m of the view that correction should be at home.

Why shouldn't teachers be able to correct students? They can do that. I fully support it. I am, however, entirely against parents amd teachers beating kids.
Spanking is not interchangable with discipline or correcting. I fact, I learned with my nieces and nephews it's rather useless, especially with a family stuffed full of stubborn bullheads.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Like I said, the PDF addressed it.

The PDF addressed what, exactly?



It would have been nice if you'd addressed anything I said at all in my post.

 

[Secret Chief]

if a child cusses out the teacher, they should be sent home

If they hit another child, they should be sent home.

What if there would be nobody at home (eg they are at work) ?

And in today’s society, there should be a cop at every school

And in today's American society maybe. Do you have enough police to do this? But let's ask @Revoltingest what he thinks of that idea.