On Evolution & Creation

[icant]

If finches would evolve into NON-finches, then evolution would be DISPROVEN; FALSIFIED; WRONG

That does not compute.

If every living thing came from a single cell why could the finches not evolve into something else and cease to exist?
A lot of things had to cease to exist for us to get to where we are now.

Enjoy,

 

[icant]

Even biblically that is wrong

So you don't believe what the Bible say's about the topic!

Please explain.

Enjoy,

 

[icant]

So you are here, on record, saying that you are not a mammal? That you are not a vertebrate?

I'ld like clear unambiguous answers.

1. are you a mammal?
2. are you a vertebrate?

If I had to evolve to get to be any of those, I am not one of them.
But if that is Gods Blueprint that mankind was created by, I could classify as one or anything He made me to be. But I have one thing that no animal, fowl, or fish will ever have. I am an eternal living being that will spend eternity with God or separated from God which is my choice and mine alone.

You have the same choice as you are in charge of your destiny.

Enjoy,

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That does not compute.

I know. The reason for that is a refusal to learn how evolution actually works and instead insisting on arguing strawmen....

If every living thing came from a single cell why could the finches not evolve into something else and cease to exist?

Because in evolution you can not outgrow your ancestry.
We are subspecies of that one cellular life you speak off.
In the case of complex organisms like plants, animals,... that one cellular ancestor was an eukaryote.
We are all "still" eukaryotes.

A lot of things had to cease to exist for us to get to where we are now.

Ancestral species are extinct, yes. And every currently extant species, is a subspecies of those ancestral species.

 

[metis]

Again, when I brought up the fruit fly experiments done at my old graduate alma mater, they clearly showed that new species can and sometimes do get formed, and that is the "ground floor" to show that there can be and is an evolutionary process. Also, it's important for some people here to realize that speciation does not go against the concept of "Divine creation". Some are reading too much from this process or too little.

 

[Pogo]

God is eternal in the past, present, and future.

The hallucinations that brought about the BBT proves beyond a shadow of doubt that God is eternal in existence.

The universe had to have a beginning to exist.
A beginning to exist requires a creator.

You can like it or lump it, that is the fact.

Enjoy,

Well that would explain a lot if we are just gods hallucination.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If finches would evolve into NON-finches, then evolution would be DISPROVEN; FALSIFIED; WRONG

That does not compute.

If I had to evolve to get to be any of those, I am not one of them.

A fine example of why that first quote "does not compute".
The willful ignorance is astounding.

Anyhow.... regardless of evolution, whether or not you are a mammal has to do with what a mammal is and what anatomical / biological features you have.

And btw, the answer is YES, you are ARE a mammal. Just like you ARE an eukaryote, a vertebrate, a tetrapod, a primate,...

 

[icant]

That doesn't mean that God planted the Garden after He placed Adam there. But that the LORD God planted a garden where he then put the man.

I am not getting exactly what you are saying.

But God formed the man and made him a living being before He planted the garden, and put him in the garden.
You can't just skip over verse 5 like it is not there. No plants.
Verse 6 mist waters the ground not plants.
Did God create the man first or did He plant the Garden first?

That does not show that the LORD God caused plants to start growing after He placed the man there. It means that at some point God placed Adam in the Garden of Eden after the Garden was formed.

The garden was not formed it was planted, That tells me God used seeds to plant the garden with

15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it.

Pay close attention this time He gave the man a job to do. The first time there was no job to do.

You might ask where God got the seed from. Since Paul described Heaven as an indescribable place, I will assume He got them from His garden.

Enjoy,

 

[icant]

I know. The reason for that is a refusal to learn how evolution actually works and instead insisting on arguing strawmen....

I know how evolution is supposed to work according to those who believe in evolution. I jus don't believe it is possible.

Because in evolution you can not outgrow your ancestry.
We are subspecies of that one cellular life you speak off.
In the case of complex organisms like plants, animals,... that one cellular ancestor was an eukaryote.
We are all "still" eukaryotes.

I believe you sincerely believe that. I also believe you are sincerely wrong. But that is your choice.

Ancestral species are extinct, yes. And every currently extant species, is a subspecies of those ancestral species.

At least we can agree on that'

Enjoy,

 

[icant]

And btw, the answer is YES, you are ARE a mammal. Just like you ARE an eukaryote, a vertebrate, a tetrapod, a primate,...

Nope. My ancestors are less than 7,000 years old.

Enjoy,

 

[Subduction Zone]

I did look deeper.
That is the reason I have been studying Biblical Hebrew for 58 years. I got tired of being told what the Bible says so I studied the original Language as you can see at the top left of my posts.

But what refuted myths are you referring too?

Enjoy,

No, you have not. You demonstrated that again and again. Science is only one way to look deeper and you have not done that. History is another way to look deeper and you have not done that. Studying it in Hebrew will not enable you to understand it if you cannot understand it in English. Your logic is extremely faulty.

As to refuted myths there is the Adam and Eve myth. We know that there never were only two people, we know that we are closely related to other apes. Even the creationists Linnaeus knew that we were apes. It bothered him to no end since he could not explain it. Then there is the Noah's Ark myth which is refuted by the simple fact that ice floats. There are quite a few such stories in the Bible. And of course there are the ways that it fails historically. There are the ways that it fails morally. You would be hard pressed to find an area of thought where the Bible does not fail if one insists on reading it literally.

 

[Dimi95]

I know how evolution is supposed to work according to those who believe in evolution. I jus don't believe it is possible.

There is no 'supposed'...
Evolution is not based on belief , it is based on evidence and facts!
It doesn't matter what me , you and anybody else believes , what matters is what the evidence is telling and that is Evolutionary Biology.

I believe you sincerely believe that. I also believe you are sincerely wrong. But that is your choice.

And the onus is on you to prove that.

This is not a discussion between believers and non-believers , this is a discussion between those who are litterate in science and those who don't even try to be.

 

[Valjean]

If I had to evolve to get to be any of those, I am not one of them.
But if that is Gods Blueprint that mankind was created by, I could classify as one or anything He made me to be. But I have one thing that no animal, fowl, or fish will ever have. I am an eternal living being that will spend eternity with God or separated from God which is my choice and mine alone.

You have the same choice as you are in charge of your destiny.

Enjoy,

So you believe humans just poofed into existence ex nihilo, by magic, because it says so in an ancient book of mythology by people who had little idea how anything worked.
OK, then

 

[YoursTrue]

I am not getting exactly what you are saying.

But God formed the man and made him a living being before He planted the garden, and put him in the garden.
You can't just skip over verse 5 like it is not there. No plants.
Verse 6 mist waters the ground not plants.
Did God create the man first or did He plant the Garden first?


The garden was not formed it was planted, That tells me God used seeds to plant the garden with


Pay close attention this time He gave the man a job to do. The first time there was no job to do.

You might ask where God got the seed from. Since Paul described Heaven as an indescribable place, I will assume He got them from His garden.

Enjoy,

Holy spirit is not the "third person" of God. Remember, ruach (Hebrew) and pneuma (Greek) can be translated as breath or spirit. God's spirit was hovering over the waters in Genesis when the earth was being made ready for life on it. To be considered His powerful force that can accomplish what He wants to without need of humans to figure things out. God can put together seeds as He wills without needing manufacturing plants of a supernatural kind, if you get my point. With that in mind, hope you have a nice day.

 

[YoursTrue]

So you believe humans just poofed into existence ex nihilo, by magic, because it says so in an ancient book of mythology by people who had little idea how anything worked.
OK, then

Now that I've gotten used to the word magic as some estimate it, the unverified theory of abiogenesis and the first living cells thereafter constitutes magic as some would have it but few would admit to it. (Have a nice day, Valjean, as time marches on...relentlessly...)

 

[Dimi95]

Holy spirit is not the "third person" of God.

Yes it is , and the first and the second person have that same spirit.
We know that by John 10:30
But the Spirit procceds from the First person - God 'The Father' and not together from 'the Father and the Son'.

Remember, ruach (Hebrew) and pneuma (Greek) can be translated as breath or spirit.

Ruach at that time probably meant 'wind' but later came to refer to the whole range of a person's emotional, intellectual, and volitional life.
Or unseen force.
It's the same in Greek.

We know that God is not a name , but a Spirit.
We know that by John 4.

God's spirit was hovering over the waters in Genesis when the earth was being made ready for life on it.

Is God's Spirit separated from God itself or not?

To be considered His powerful force that can accomplish what He wants to without need of humans to figure things out.

You said 'his powerfull force'.
So the Spirit is His?
Did he created it or was eternally with God, or something else?

God can put together seeds as He wills without needing manufacturing plants of a supernatural kind, if you get my point. With that in mind, hope you have a nice day.

Yes , but he does not do that manually from heaven
He is not a magician , he is God.

 

[Dimi95]

Now that I've gotten used to the word magic as some estimate it, the unverified theory of abiogenesis and the first living cells thereafter constitutes magic as some would have it but few would admit to it. (Have a nice day, Valjean, as time marches on...relentlessly...)

No, it does not , it constitues that life came out of inorganic matter which is not magic in any way.
Those who say that means nothingness , they are clueless.

 

[YoursTrue]

3 years worth of trying to teach you something.... Just one simple thing. And still you pretend that you try to learn. What a bad joke.

Please take the following, copy paste it to word, print it out and then hang it on the ceiling above your bed, so that it is the first thing you see when you open your eyes every morning. Perhaps then it will sink in.

If finches would evolve into NON-finches, then evolution would be DISPROVEN; FALSIFIED; WRONG

OK, I understand. You have no verifiable evidence that fruit flies evolved to something other than fruit flies. Thank you very much. Oh, and finches, despite their changing beak sizes or color or feather variations are observed to stay finches. Not enough time perhaps to notice finches evolving to something other than i the finch "family"? :

 

[YoursTrue]

I am not getting exactly what you are saying.

But God formed the man and made him a living being before He planted the garden, and put him in the garden.
You can't just skip over verse 5 like it is not there. No plants.
Verse 6 mist waters the ground not plants.
Did God create the man first or did He plant the Garden first?


The garden was not formed it was planted, That tells me God used seeds to plant the garden with


Pay close attention this time He gave the man a job to do. The first time there was no job to do.

You might ask where God got the seed from. Since Paul described Heaven as an indescribable place, I will assume He got them from His garden.

Enjoy,

OK, I got news for you. I can't explain right now everything that is written in the Bible. I logically give credence to the understanding that when God placed the man in the Garden of Eden, He did so in a manner that enabled him to eat. When Moses is resurrected as well as others, I hope to learn more as to how he learned what happened in the Garden and the creation account. Thanks.

 

[Argentbear]

I know. The reason for that is a refusal to learn how evolution actually works and instead insisting on arguing strawmen....



Because in evolution you can not outgrow your ancestry.
We are subspecies of that one cellular life you speak off.
In the case of complex organisms like plants, animals,... that one cellular ancestor was an eukaryote.
We are all "still" eukaryotes.

If you are a eukaryote how in the world are you able to type on your computer?