One God or many gods

[muhammad_isa]

Don't you know Ha Satan is a God ? .. Say so in Job .. how you gonna interpret that .. .without believing in the existence of other Gods .. or rather .. that the folks writing the story .. and everyone reading the story at the time .. believed in the existence of many Gods .. even if they only worshiped one .. which the Bible tells us is pretty much never..

Firstly, the OT is comprised of ancient scrolls, and is not likely to be an accurate representation
of what was revealed several thousand years ago.

Secondly, the wise person does not depend on one or two verses to understand "the whole".

how about you pur your money where mouth is --- find me one time in the entire history of the Israelites = from Moses to 720BC when Assyria takes over .. when the Israelites are worshiping ony one God ? sans the few monolateralist prophets that crop up from time to time ..

I'm not interested in playing games with history books .. that is, I show you mine, and you show me yours etc.

Support your claim --- show us the Monotheism .. or even Monolateralism .. let you off easy and set the bar there ... a time when Israel is not Raging Polytheists.

I use the intelligence that G-d has bestowed upon me.
We all use our intelligence in different ways.

G-d willing, you will NEVER persuade me that G-d did not send prophets and messengers to mankind
teaching monotheism, from the advent of mankind.

 

[Superman7]

I am not into name calling. I unDerstand the gods to be personification of our collective conscious. So there are levels. gods don't emanate from God.

What is being said sounds like a discussion.

History is written by the Victor's. Abraham took his son for sacrifice. The Canaanites cannot be condemned for the same practice. It was pure politics.
Jews entered Edomite land. Fury was natural and justified.

It was a test of faith. When God told Abraham to go sacrifice his son Isaac. Jehovah God stopped him right before he was going to do it. At the same time a ram was stuck on a tree limb and God said look there that is what you will sacrifice. So it didmt a actually happen.God would not do that.

 

[Sargonski]

Firstly, the OT is comprised of ancient scrolls, and is not likely to be an accurate representation
of what was revealed several thousand years ago.

Secondly, the wise person does not depend on one or two verses to understand "the whole".


I'm not interested in playing games with history books .. that is, I show you mine, and you show me yours etc.


I use the intelligence that G-d has bestowed upon me.
We all use our intelligence in different ways.

G-d willing, you will NEVER persuade me that G-d did not send prophets and messengers to mankind
teaching monotheism, from the advent of mankind.

I never said the Bible - in of itself was an accurate representation of history .. nor did I use just two verses. 2 strawman fallacies in your opening .. followed by some playground .>> I won't show you mine if you show me yours" antic.

This is then followed with the claim that you use intelligence given you by the creator --- good .. then let us see evidence of that for something other than fallacy and deflection from the Truth ..

The Truth .. that the Israelites were raging polytheists --- according to History, Archaeology, Theologians and Theological Studies .. Biblical Archaeology - anyone putting mind to subject matter comes to same conclusion.

you than finish with a 3rd strawman fallacy -- I never told you God did not send prophets teaching monotheism .. so why are you pretending that I am trying to convince you of something I am not ? Your problem is you don't have the faintest idea who those prophets are for the most part .. and what the stars have to say .. no understanding of those prophets have you .. nor do you listen to these prophets .. because if you did .. you would know that the Israelites were raging polytheists.. these prophets doing little but calling them out on this fact.

and finally your hypocritical contradiction .. in the same posts .. Speaking about reverence for Prophets sent by God = reverence for ancient scrolls .. when at the beginning you say these scrolls are not an accurat representation = you don't know much about these prophets from the scrolls.

Thats some busted logic going on there Muhamu .. perhaps the influence of the decepticons has crept into your ideological perspective -- i mean look at the content of your post .. nothing but false accusations -- (3 strawman fallacies) -- deflection --(failing to address the topic which is Israelite Polytheism / Monotheism) - and hypocritical contradiction.

what is it that troubles you so much about the Polytheistic past of the Israelites ? that later prophets like Ezekiel decried .. and lest we forget Elijah -- what did that prophet have to say --- he the only one left in all Israel of the one true God .. 450 for Baah .. 400 for Asherah --

Thats what your Boy say Muhamu .. Elijah .. or is he not one of the Prophets you like ..

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Truth .. that the Israelites were raging polytheists --- according to History, Archaeology, Theologians and Theological Studies .. Biblical Archaeology - anyone putting mind to subject matter comes to same conclusion..

No .. you've forgotten/ignored what I said.

i.e.
From the view of a believer, it can be seen as the majority REVERTING to polytheism through
illiteracy. Hence we see the people of old worshipping El, Jehovah etc. as idols.
That does not prove anything one way or another .. it's just that you read books from disbelieving authors.

Speaking about reverence for Prophets sent by God = reverence for ancient scrolls .. when at the beginning you say these scrolls are not an accurat representation = you don't know much about these prophets from the scrolls..

Right .. it seems reasonable to me, that as books/scrolls get older, they become less reliable, generally speaking.
As regards the OT, we already have Jesus complaining about "the Scribes" (Pharisees), and their wording/interpretation in the NT.
..and then there's the Qur'an confirming the basic truth in earlier books (not details, necessarily).

The Qur'an is ~1500 years old and not 3000 or more.

what is it that troubles you so much about the Polytheistic past of the Israelites ?

Umm .. that seems to be you. What I am not happy with, is the inference that YHWH or El, was once an "idol god" etc.
The fact that people reverted to polytheism in ignorance, does NOT make G-d into something
that He's not.
Neither can one conclude beyond reasonable doubt, that any particular name (in any language)
for G-d, could not have been used by ignorant people as well as the learned.

 

[Bear Wild]

Umm .. that seems to be you. What I am not happy with, is the inference that YHWH or El, was once an "idol god" etc.
The fact that people reverted to polytheism in ignorance, does NOT make G-d into something
that He's not.

Please explain what you mean by reverting to polytheism in ignorance!!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Please explain what you mean by reverting to polytheism in ignorance!!!

What I'm referring to, for example, is Moses being sent to mankind to teach G-d's guidance (monotheism), but the "Children of Israel" (tribe - Israel was a man) became impatient and
longed for their past lives and culture.

This can be seen in any era with various teachers/messengers.
Civilizations rise and fall due to mankind's nature.

 

[Bear Wild]

What I'm referring to, for example, is Moses being sent to mankind to teach G-d's guidance (monotheism), but the "Children of Israel" (tribe - Israel was a man) became impatient and
longed for their past lives and culture.

This can be seen in any era with various teachers/messengers.
Civilizations rise and fall due to mankind's nature.

So you have no problem with people of today returning to polytheistic religions and not in ignorance? Just checking from your statement.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So you have no problem with people of today returning to polytheistic religions and not in ignorance?

The problem is not me .. the problem is satan..

 

[Sargonski]

No .. you've forgotten/ignored what I said.

i.e.
From the view of a believer, it can be seen as the majority REVERTING to polytheism through
illiteracy. Hence we see the people of old worshipping El, Jehovah etc. as idols.
That does not prove anything one way or another .. it's just that you read books from disbelieving authors.


Right .. it seems reasonable to me, that as books/scrolls get older, they become less reliable, generally speaking.
As regards the OT, we already have Jesus complaining about "the Scribes" (Pharisees), and their wording/interpretation in the NT.
..and then there's the Qur'an confirming the basic truth in earlier books (not details, necessarily).

The Qur'an is ~1500 years old and not 3000 or more.


Umm .. that seems to be you. What I am not happy with, is the inference that YHWH or El, was once an "idol god" etc.
The fact that people reverted to polytheism in ignorance, does NOT make G-d into something
that He's not.
Neither can one conclude beyond reasonable doubt, that any particular name (in any language)
for G-d, could not have been used by ignorant people as well as the learned.

I never inferred anything about God -- and your claim that as documents age they become less reliable is preposterous false nonsense ??

I simply told you the simple fact that the Israelites were Polytheist .. that monotheism was not a part of their religious belief -- which you now seem to agree with.

Your claim that the people reverted from monotheism to polytheism is false -- as they were never monotheist to begin with .. Not Abe - Not the Patriarchs .. not Ishmael .. not the Israelites.

The people who worshiped only one God ... were not monotheists .. what part the definition of monotheism are you not understanding ? These people believed in the existence of other Gods .. they just worshiped only one .. like Abe.

and last .. the New Testament and/or Quran had precisely Zero to do with the religious beliefs of the Israelites.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

History is written by the Victor's. Abraham took his son for sacrifice. The Canaanites cannot be condemned for the same practice. It was pure politics. Jews entered Edomite land. Fury was natural and justified.

The point about Abraham and Isaac was to show their faith confidence in the promised resurrection.
Isaac would have to marry and have children, so a dead Isaac could Not do that.
Remember: God stopped Abraham, the point is showing Abraham's believed in the physical resurrection.
Even before they left for the sacrifice please notice Genesis 22:5 because Abraham was already showing his confidence in the resurrection by his saying, " I (Abraham) and the lad (Isaac)...... will come again to you."
They believed they would return.
A dead lad/Isaac could not make such a return if Isaac was sacrificed.
Remember God's words as found at Jeremiah 32:35 because pagan sacrifice did Not enter God's mind.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The gods are collective consciousness of groups. Some align with God. Others do not. They are evil gods.

I would venture to say that sinner satan is an evil god ( the god of this world of badness - 2nd Corinthians 4:4 )
Thus that would include satan's fallen angels who chose to follow him - James 1:13-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............ The Holy Spirit. How do you get it?

God's holy spirit (Psalm 104:30) which is sent forth from God can start with prayer to the God of the Bible.
More information on 'how do you get it' can be found at www.jw.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

To people on RF who believe in many gods, why do you believe that and not in only one god?

To people on RF who believe in one god, why do you believe that and not in many gods?

My choice has largely to do with the need for a harmonious moral teaching. If you have many gods, then you end up following the morality of the god of war o Monday, but the morality of the goddess of love on Tuesday. That just makes no sense to me. With a single deity, you have one systematic non-conflicting moral teaching. It just makes more sense therefore to believe in a unified divine than a fragmented divine.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I would venture to say that sinner satan is an evil god

So to be clear, you are saying you believe in multiple gods?

 

[Sargonski]

I apaologize.. The Holy Spirit. How do you get it?

Amazon Prime ! .. or .. you can order the Holy Water from that televangelist ..

God's holy spirit (Psalm 104:30) which is sent forth from God can start with prayer to the God of the Bible.
More information on 'how do you get it' can be found at www.jw.org

Now -- when see someone claim to be able to control the Holy Spirit .. make it dance on command .. now I am impressed.

I have seen this "powerfull prayer" that you speak of in action .. call themselves Pentecostals -- they can commune with the Holy Spirit Directly .. call it "Speaking in tongues" == same as "The Logos" these people .. can speak "The WORD" of God directly through the Holy Spirit.

Have you learned these skills as well ? and are you serious that "logos in a box" can be found at www.jw.org ? This I need to see to believe .. "Logos in a Box" .. is that what I should order .. or is there a different name for this product ?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I apaologize.. The Holy Spirit. How do you get it?

Your question assumes the Holy Spirit is something that you can get.

For Jews, "holy spirit" simply refers to God's might. He is not some separate entity.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Your claim that the people reverted from monotheism to polytheism is false..

..and you know that how?

These people believed in the existence of other Gods..

You are very confused, aren't you?
Either that, or you are willfully making assertions without knowledge.

Sweeping generalizations about others can be seen as slander. The blame game.
Of course polytheism was rife in the past .. more so than today.
That can be put down to the illiteracy of the majority in times of old.
G-d is the fairest of ALL judges .. nobody will be blamed for something beyond their control.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I simply told you the simple fact that the Israelites were Polytheist .. that monotheism was not a part of their religious belief -- which you now seem to agree with.

It all depends when in our history you are pointing to.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Your question assumes the Holy Spirit is something that you can get.

For Jews, "holy spirit" simply refers to God's might. He is not some separate entity.

God has godlike qualities such as being everywhere at once, knows what everyone is thinking and feeling, can do anything, can create out of nothing, knows everything including past, present, and future, has always existed, is beyond space and time, and can create realities. How can a being have all those qualities? As far as I can see and understand, this can only be if our reality is in the mind of God which makes Him the Father of all realities. "In my Father's house there are many mansions."
The beginning of our reality started when the Father first placed a living being in it with his own mind, heart, soul, and will. This being is referred to as the Son of God because he is the first and only being directly formed in the mind of the Father in our reality. The Father interacts with different realities through His Holy Spirit which in Isaiah 63: 9-10 is referred to as the angel of His presence. In other words, where the Holy Spirit is, the Father is. It is referred to as an angel because the Holy Spirit can be sent.
The Father fills His Son with His Holy Spirit which acts as a portal through which the Father communicates His will, speaks through, and empowers the being indwelt to accomplish His will.
Our reality was created by the Father through His Son and for His Son. There is divine love between them and the Son subjugates his will to that of the Father.
John 16: 13-15 (NCV) But when the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into all truth. He will not speak his own words, but he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is to come. The Spirit of truth will bring glory to me, because he will take what I have to say and tell it to you. All that the Father has (to say) is mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take what I have to say and tell it to you.
The Holy Spirit of the Father is not a person because if he is, then he would have a mind and be able to speak what is on his mind, and those would be his own words. The Holy Spirit of the Father is a portal through which the invisible God, the Father, communicates, speaks through, and empowers beings in the different realities that He creates in His mind.

Quote Reply

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

dead lad/Isaac could not make such a return if Isaac was sacrificed

That is not the point. Thequestion simply is that why kill Canaanites for a practice that you yourself follow. The theory behind the practice is not relevant.