as an example, blasphemy used to be punishable by death.
Isn't that what essentially is happening in the Communist (and therefore atheist) country of North Korea?
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as an example, blasphemy used to be punishable by death.
But what about Christianity makes it inherently the cause?
I don't fully understand why you brought up economics in the first place. Therefore, it's natural that I'd ask for a further clarification.
Besides, I fully admit that I have only a rudimentary knowledge of history, because I don't trust for a moment that "history" that was taught to me in high school.
But I don't think it invalidates my entire argument, because tons of empires fell back in the day.
Isn't that what essentially is happening in the Communist (and therefore atheist) country of North Korea?
Both Koreas share a Buddhist and Confucian heritage and a recent history of Christian and Cheondoism ("religion of the Heavenly Way") movements.
communism is a political movement and should never be confused with religion or lack of.
The point is, political systems are, IMO, far more to blame for the ills of history than religion.
you have no idea how happy I am that you didn't question my statement of "inversely proportional" directly, because if you did, i would have had to use 4 graphs to back it up and were just struggling with 1 here.
well, i guess that killing people who go against religion is not a new argument so lets use an other one.
Ive already stated that people in Europe feel strongly on the separation of church and state. thats because they have learned from history. If you let a religion run every aspect of a country, things are going to go wrong.
Example:im not sure if im using the right words (I dont know the English terms) but you have 3 branches of power, the executive (the one who enforces the law), Legislative ( the one who makes the law) and judicial (the one who passes judgment).
Now for the most time of the Dark Ages, these 3 branches ware not separated and they ware practically run by the Church. so Imagine a religious institution that can make his own laws, decide themselves who breaks those laws and than pass judgment on those people.
I think that it is easy to understand how this is counterproductive.
well then there must have been a misunderstanding
"It's sort of like saying we're in a stagnation now, because a good chunk of the world is in poverty and stagnation."
If you werent referring to economics with this, than what what ware you referring to?
you have a better understanding of history than most people I know.
but If it sounds like Im talking down at you, please blame my choise of words because I have no such intent.
EDIT
If I may ask, what kind of "history" did they teach you?
I agree, most empires failed back in the day, and knowledge was lost with them. the egyptians knew how far the sun was from the earth and until this day nobody knows how they knew.
but there was still a steady progress in the technology of those days, even with all those empires failing. But when the Western roman Empire collapsed, it took about 1000 years to get back to ware they started. and the onley fundamental difference that I can see is that that period was marked by fundamentalism and religious intollorence.
i agree, and religion gets blamed many times when it should not
And the Dark Ages is one such instance, I'm arguing.
Evidence?
After all, there were technological advancements made during that time, and the Dark Ages were only in Europe. There were plenty of advancements, in Islamic countries especially, and elsewhere in the world.
Besides, there's no evidence that we would be farther along now than we would have been. I call logical fallacy there.
Besides being forbidden by Jesus. ^_^
Oh, the kind where America is the savior of the world, where Columbus argued that the world was round and proved it by going to America and making perfect friends with the natives there...
The history where the Civil War was fought over slavery and with the primary intention of freeing the slaves, the history where all the countries we ever went to war with were pure evil at the time we were fighting them...
That sort of thing.
Well, considering how well documents get preserved in that region, I'd wager that someday we'll know.
yes, it continues elsware, onley to be stopped in its tracks (By multiple religions) for a second time.Except for the fact that the progress continued elsewhere.
Even still, I don't see religion, or more specifically, Christianity, as the primary cause of this.
the advancement in bagdad only lasted 300 yrs and it stopped because mathematics was deemed as the work of the devil. in just 300 hundred years the concept of zero was formulated, algebra and then bam...it has gone in a downward spin ever since. wonder why?
well i guess that its safe to say that we differ on opinion here. based on what I know, I see religion not nescecarily as the primary cause but as a major contributor for holding back civilisation.
but I am not going to try andprove this to you, because it is an opinion and not a fact. I can onley give you the facts on which iI based my opinion (which I already did).
and why do I specify christianity? followed by Islam.
because these 2 religions are the onley ones That I know enough about to make a judgement.
I am not going to judge something when I don't know anything about it.
The point is, political systems are, IMO, far more to blame for the ills of history than religion.
While the hunt for power, of individuals and groups, is likely ultimately to blame for the vast majority of historical evils, religion is often the mechanism by which those "ulterior motives" are carried out.Riverwolf said:Okay... and what is it about religion that you think makes it one of the primary causes?
Certainly not religion itself. 300 years is a fairly long time; that's longer than the U.S. has been around.
If it was the religion itself, then there wouldn't have been those advancements ever.
But I don't know much about Middle Eastern history, so I'm not going to speculate as to why.
Okay... and what is it about religion that you think makes it one of the primary causes?
There are other things besides religion that oppress us.