Isn't that what essentially is happening in the Communist (and therefore atheist) country of North Korea?
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Oppression of progress
- Thread starter Twiglet04
- Start date
Isn't that what essentially is happening in the Communist (and therefore atheist) country of North Korea?
you have no idea how happy I am that you didn't question my statement of "inversely proportional" directly, because if you did, i would have had to use 4 graphs to back it up and were just struggling with 1 here.
well, i guess that killing people who go against religion is not a new argument so lets use an other one.
Ive already stated that people in Europe feel strongly on the separation of church and state. that’s because they have learned from history. If you let a religion run every aspect of a country, things are going to go wrong.
Example:im not sure if im using the right words (I don’t know the English terms) but you have 3 branches of power, the executive (the one who enforces the law), Legislative ( the one who makes the law) and judicial (the one who passes judgment).
Now for the most time of the Dark Ages, these 3 branches ware not separated and they ware practically run by the Church. so Imagine a religious institution that can make his own laws, decide themselves who breaks those laws and than pass judgment on those people.
I think that it is easy to understand how this is counterproductive.
well then there must have been a misunderstanding
"It's sort of like saying we're in a stagnation now, because a good chunk of the world is in poverty and stagnation."
If you weren’t referring to economics with this, than what what ware you referring to?
you have a better understanding of history than most people I know.
but If it sounds like I’m talking down at you, please blame my choise of words because I have no such intent.
EDIT
If I may ask, what kind of "history" did they teach you?
I agree, most empires failed back in the day, and knowledge was lost with them. the egyptians knew how far the sun was from the earth and until this day nobody knows how they knew.
but there was still a steady progress in the technology of those days, even with all those empires failing. But when the Western roman Empire collapsed, it took about 1000 years to get back to ware they started. and the onley fundamental difference that I can see is that that period was marked by fundamentalism and religious intollorence.
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outhouse
Atheistically
North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
have to do your homework bud
Both Koreas share a Buddhist and Confucian heritage and a recent history of Christian and Cheondoism ("religion of the Heavenly Way") movements. The North Korean constitution
communism is a political movement and should never be confused with religion or lack of.
That's a big article, and I don't really want to read it.
Got any highlights for me?
So?
Yeah, I know.
The point is, political systems are, IMO, far more to blame for the ills of history than religion.
Besides being forbidden by Jesus. ^_^
No arguments from me.
That's correct.
I'm against religion being involved in politics in any way. I don't care what the religion is, or even a secular system of living, if it becomes political, it will cause problems (not may or might, but will.)
Okay, you got me there. ^_^
I don't get that sense at all.
Oh, the kind where America is the savior of the world, where Columbus argued that the world was round and proved it by going to America and making perfect friends with the natives there...
The history where the Civil War was fought over slavery and with the primary intention of freeing the slaves, the history where all the countries we ever went to war with were pure evil at the time we were fighting them...
That sort of thing.
Well, considering how well documents get preserved in that region, I'd wager that someday we'll know.
Except for the fact that the progress continued elsewhere.
Even still, I don't see religion, or more specifically, Christianity, as the primary cause of this.
And the Dark Ages is one such instance, I'm arguing.
outhouse
Atheistically
they were pretty brutal with everything surrounding religion at that time.
it wasnt just a cultural thing it was a way of life and death
waitasec
Veteran Member
the advancement in bagdad only lasted 300 yrs and it stopped because mathematics was deemed as the work of the devil. in just 300 hundred years the concept of zero was formulated, algebra and then bam...it has gone in a downward spin ever since. wonder why?
lol, i find that ironic
lol, wel, im lucky in that department because my country never really did much that was historicaly important so they decidet to teach us about countrys that actually did matter.
true, but we have already reinvented a way to calculate the distance from the earth to the sun so you can argue that that knowledge was lost.
yes, it continues elsware, onley to be stopped in its tracks (By multiple religions) for a second time.
well i guess that its safe to say that we differ on opinion here. based on what I know, I see religion not nescecarily as the primary cause but as a major contributor for holding back civilisation.
but I am not going to try andprove this to you, because it is an opinion and not a fact. I can onley give you the facts on which iI based my opinion (which I already did).
and why do I specify christianity? followed by Islam.
because these 2 religions are the onley ones That I know enough about to make a judgement.
I am not going to judge something when I don't know anything about it.
Certainly not religion itself. 300 years is a fairly long time; that's longer than the U.S. has been around.
If it was the religion itself, then there wouldn't have been those advancements ever.
But I don't know much about Middle Eastern history, so I'm not going to speculate as to why.
Okay... and what is it about religion that you think makes it one of the primary causes?
What political system has done more damage than the combined fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam?
While the hunt for power, of individuals and groups, is likely ultimately to blame for the vast majority of historical evils, religion is often the mechanism by which those "ulterior motives" are carried out.Riverwolf said:
Religion is a prime motivator-- do this or lose your immortal soul-- and a prime manipulator-- God wants you to do this! In other words, while the Pope probably started the Crusades just to grab Islamic land, the foot soldiers, the average person, were doing it because their religious leader told them that that is what God wants them to do. And the order was carried out that much more fervently, less need for persuasion, and with the self-righteous, self-satisfied knowledge that you weren't doing it just because you're a greedy *******, but because you are carrying out the work of the Supreme Being of the Universe.
A lot of crap couldn't have been done, or wouldn't have been done as thoroughly, without the tool of religion to motivate the masses.
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outhouse
Atheistically
you take what the spanish did to the incan empire which resulted in the detruction of that whole culture. In the name of the cross and bringing a new religion to heathens destroyed everything.
they loved robbing the gold and murdering in cold blood and lies. 200 men brutaly destroyed thousands of beautiful people.
you can say what you want positive about religion but I have seen first hand the destruction murder and greed. I have seen the history book and encyclopedias where brilliant minds were destroyed.
its one thing to talk about what you think you know from history and when you have long lost relatives murdered in the name of the cross.
they loved robbing the gold and murdering in cold blood and lies. 200 men brutaly destroyed thousands of beautiful people.
you can say what you want positive about religion but I have seen first hand the destruction murder and greed. I have seen the history book and encyclopedias where brilliant minds were destroyed.
its one thing to talk about what you think you know from history and when you have long lost relatives murdered in the name of the cross.
Also, religions tend to be horribly antagonistic towards change.* There are a variety of reasons for this tendency, but I think it's mostly to do with retaining power. Since, progress is a (purportedly) upward trend of change, that means that religions tend to be antagonistic towards progress as well.
*I must qualify that statement. This certainly appears to be true for Christianity and Islam; I really cant say about Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism. And I would assume that beliefs like Wicca would embrace change.
*I must qualify that statement. This certainly appears to be true for Christianity and Islam; I really cant say about Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism. And I would assume that beliefs like Wicca would embrace change.
waitasec
Veteran Member
no not religion itself, but religion feeds into this notion that the unknowable is known, so we stop progress only because we've exulted ourselves when we need to live in the humility our limited knowledge has shown us, we don't know.
it was iman hamid al-ghazali
he was the philosopher who said mathematics was the work of the devil...
surely you see how this coincides with the religious state they are in today and surely you can see why the united states is falling behind in math and in science compared to the rest of the secular nations. where else do you see ID taught?
"In June 2007 the Council of Europe's "Committee on Culture, Science and Education" issued a report, The dangers of creationism in education, which states "Creationism in any of its forms, such as 'intelligent design', is not based on facts, does not use any scientific reasoning and its contents are pathetically inadequate for science classes."[176] In describing the dangers posed to education by teaching creationism, it described intelligent design as "anti-science" and involving "blatant scientific fraud" and "intellectual deception" that "blurs the nature, objectives and limits of science" and links it and other forms of creationism to denialism. On October 4, 2007, the Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly approved a resolution stating that schools should "resist presentation of creationist ideas in any discipline other than religion", including "intelligent design" which it described as "the latest, more refined version of creationism", "presented in a more subtle way". The resolution emphasises that the aim of the report is not to question or to fight a belief, but to "warn against certain tendencies to pass off a belief as science"....
Creationism has strong political support in many Islamic countries, and antievolutionary views are mainstream among academic theologians and scientists...
The status of intelligent design in Australia is somewhat similar to that in the UK (see: Education in Australia). When the former Australian Federal Education Minister, Brendan Nelson, raised the notion of intelligent design being taught in science classes, the public outcry caused the minister to quickly concede that the correct forum for intelligent design, if it were to be taught, is in religious or philosophy classes."
Intelligent design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
this is no coincidence...
are you asking me for examples or are you asking me what I think the reason is that makes religion hold back societys?
2 wrongs dont make a right