Origin of life

[FearGod]

Atoms and molecules interact naturally, following the laws of chemistry and physics. We can observe them forming membranes, amino acids and other components of life. No magic poofing needed.
Life and non-life have no clear boundaries. Likely many compounds and structures with various lifelike features formed before clearly 'alive' organisms came to the fore.

DNA's not that complex. RNA is even less complex. They can be long molecules, sure, but otherwise pretty simple.

What do you think about this research

DNA discovery illustrates creation’s complexity

Researchers have found a second layer of information embedded in DNA, refueling a debate between proponents of Darwinism and intelligent design.

Since the 1960s, scientists recognized that the order of molecules in DNA represented a particular code that governs the development of gene-forming proteins. Now, researchers from the University of Washington have discovered a second set of instructions in DNA that governs how those genes function.

Until recently, much of the DNA chain was thought to serve no useful purpose. Then, about a year ago, a multinational team of scientists found this so-called junk DNA actually serves useful functions at precise times in the life of each cell. They suspected finding these functions might lead to the discovery of entire layers of information embedded in the genetic code, and the new research confirms that suspicion.

The findings, published in the journal Science, show that the two languages, or layers of information, in DNA work together to describe the structure and sequence of proteins and provide instructions to control genes formed by those proteins.

The University of Washington press release announcing the discovery claimed the two languages evolved together, reflecting an underlying assumption of Darwinian evolution. But supporters of intelligent design assert that the previously unsuspected layer of complexity points to the hand of an Intelligent Designer and highlights the wonder of creation.

The fact that DNA contains two separate sets of instructions that cannot interfere with each other reveals something greater than just random chance, intelligent design advocates argue. “Usually one thinks of a spy or prisoner of war who can conceal a second message with meaning B in a message with meaning A as showing unusual skill and intelligence,” said Dr. Angus Menuge, a professor at Concordia University Wisconsin who has studied the intersection of science and theology. “Both messages have to make sense in their own terms and not somehow interfere with each other.”

Discovering a new layer of information in DNA suggests the possibility of even more discoveries as researchers look for further patterns in complexity. But Menuge realizes that scientists with an almost religious adherence to Darwinism may not be able to see what that complexity points to: “Of course, the more obvious the evidence for design is, the more some will say isn’t it amazing what natural selection can do.”

WORLD | DNA discovery illustrates creation’s complexity | Jesse Yow | Jan. 7, 2014

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Stars didn't come from nothingness, where did the dust come from ? the supernovae of another star, and how the first stars formed before any dust or matter exist, so again we did know nothing but only we pretend that we know everything.

There is still a lot we don't know, but saying "God did it" seems like the biggest pretence at knowledge.

 

[Valjean]

Do you think a matter existing out of nothing isn't equivalent to magic, how that can be logic to you.
Do you think it is a natural thing that matter to exist without the need for anything to cause it and just to exist out of nothingness.

Modern physics does appear to be magic. Relativity and quantum mechanics are counter-intuitive. They contradict 'common sense' and our experience of the world, yet they are real, they can be explained and they can be demonstrated experimentally. They are not magic.
What is magic are things being poofed into existence, with no apparent mechanism, by an invisible personage. -- "how can that be logic to you?"

 

[FearGod]

If you can't see how your words were disrespectful, then I will not push this. I will say that I do not think it is good to tell a person what you think is in their heart. Only God can know what is in a person's heart.

I will also say that one does not have to choose between believing in God and in the process of Evolution. Many religious people believe in the process of evolution. It does not contradict my religion. It makes perfect sense to me that God would create this natural process.

So you believe God is the causer, no problem then, i misunderstood you then.
I believe the same thing that God caused it to happen by natural processes.

 

[Madhuri]

So you believe God is the causer, no problem then, i misunderstood you then.
I believe the same thing that God caused it to happen by natural processes.

What did you think I said?

 

[FearGod]

Modern physics does appear to be magic. Relativity and quantum mechanics are counter-intuitive. They contradict 'common sense' and our experience of the world, yet they are real, they can be explained and they can be demonstrated experimentally. They are not magic.
What is magic are things being poofed into existence, with no apparent mechanism, by an invisible personage. -- "how can that be logic to you?"

Then tell us how it happened while there was nothing to start with.
It was vacuum, nothingness..............then what happened, tell me your logic.

 

[LuisDantas]

YES
that's what i mean , everytime the fans of evolutions , said evolution happaned during million or billion of years .

It began long ago, certainly, but it is happening still. It never stopped.

I am curious if there is a creature evoluted recently ,

Certainly. There are whole laboratories directing the evolution of several forms of life, as a matter of fact.

i mean during human existed , why the creatures stop evoluting , what is the proof that we (all creatures) are evoluting ?

Direct observation. A particularly clear example are the bacteria that consume nylon, which were discovered a few years ago.

But I think you may be using a meaning of "evolution" that is not quite the same as that of current biology.

 

[Chakra]

Okay, let's start at the beginning. Souls, Matter, and God are eternal in Vedanta. I personally reconcile evolution and Vedanta by saying that evolution provides the diversity of bodies for the soul.

 

[FearGod]

What did you think I said?

For example you liked some statements which oppose the logic behind believing that God does exist, and hence i concluded that you support it

 

[Madhuri]

For example you liked some statements which oppose the logic behind believing that God does exist, and hence i concluded that you support it

Hmm, I would have to see the particular posts to be able to comment.

 

[Chakra]

If I may, I believe it was Post #13 that may have made FearGod make those conclusions.

 

[FearGod]

If I may, I believe it was Post #13 that may have made FearGod make those conclusions.

Exactly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I believe the same thing that God caused it to happen by natural processes.

Yes, Gods or Goddesses may have done it (I do not know since I am an atheist), but the real question is which one? Our Gods and Goddesses are not the same as Yehoshua or Allah.

Then tell us how it happened while there was nothing to start with. It was vacuum, nothingness .. then what happened, tell me your logic.

There must be a relation between existence and non-existence, like in virtual particles. RigVeda points at the relationship in the 'Nasadiya Sukta'.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

What do you think about some discoveries which says that origin of life came from the stars and not from earth.

Transpermiation is a theory that life could have originated from another planet and was brought here by asteroids that had made impact. The idea was to allow more time of development prior to earth. However there isn't any real evidence to support it other than we know its "possible". I don't think there is any reason to assume life happened on Mars rather than Earth. But I had never heard of something coming from the stars. I mean all of the elements needed for life developed in the star that is for sure.

 

[FearGod]

Yes, Gods or Goddesses may have done it (I do not know since I am an atheist), but the real question is which one? Our Gods and Goddesses are not the same as Yehoshua or Allah.

That is another topic.

 

[Jumi]

You can believe gods and evolution, no problem unless you think all life was created like magic by a god or many gods. The big problem for some is that if we have evolution we can't have a 6000 year old universe.

 

[FearGod]

Transpermiation is a theory that life could have originated from another planet and was brought here by asteroids that had made impact. The idea was to allow more time of development prior to earth. However there isn't any real evidence to support it other than we know its "possible". I don't think there is any reason to assume life happened on Mars rather than Earth. But I had never heard of something coming from the stars. I mean all of the elements needed for life developed in the star that is for sure.

What do you think about this article ?

Life's Raw Materials May Have Come From The Stars, Scientists Confirm -- ScienceDaily

 

[Valjean]

What do you think about this research

DNA discovery illustrates creation’s complexity

Researchers have found a second layer of information embedded in DNA, refueling a debate between proponents of Darwinism and intelligent design.

Since the 1960s, scientists recognized that the order of molecules in DNA represented a particular code that governs the development of gene-forming proteins. Now, researchers from the University of Washington have discovered a second set of instructions in DNA that governs how those genes function.

Until recently, much of the DNA chain was thought to serve no useful purpose. Then, about a year ago, a multinational team of scientists found this so-called junk DNA actually serves useful functions at precise times in the life of each cell. They suspected finding these functions might lead to the discovery of entire layers of information embedded in the genetic code, and the new research confirms that suspicion.

The findings, published in the journal Science, show that the two languages, or layers of information, in DNA work together to describe the structure and sequence of proteins and provide instructions to control genes formed by those proteins.

The University of Washington press release announcing the discovery claimed the two languages evolved together, reflecting an underlying assumption of Darwinian evolution. But supporters of intelligent design assert that the previously unsuspected layer of complexity points to the hand of an Intelligent Designer and highlights the wonder of creation.

The fact that DNA contains two separate sets of instructions that cannot interfere with each other reveals something greater than just random chance, intelligent design advocates argue. “Usually one thinks of a spy or prisoner of war who can conceal a second message with meaning B in a message with meaning A as showing unusual skill and intelligence,” said Dr. Angus Menuge, a professor at Concordia University Wisconsin who has studied the intersection of science and theology. “Both messages have to make sense in their own terms and not somehow interfere with each other.”

Discovering a new layer of information in DNA suggests the possibility of even more discoveries as researchers look for further patterns in complexity. But Menuge realizes that scientists with an almost religious adherence to Darwinism may not be able to see what that complexity points to: “Of course, the more obvious the evidence for design is, the more some will say isn’t it amazing what natural selection can do.”

WORLD | DNA discovery illustrates creation’s complexity | Jesse Yow | Jan. 7, 2014

This doesn't link to the original Science article, so it's hard to comment on what this other "language" might be. Could be talking about garden variety epigenetics, for all I can tell.

"Suggestions of design," however, I suspect to be in the eye of the beholder. Creationists make the same claim for just about every new and not yet understood biological discovery.

Now about this "information in DNA" meme. This is a favorite creationist talking point, and it's a fundamental misunderstanding.
DNA doesn't 'store information' in the sense intended. it's a template, a pattern that ribosomes can zip along and poop out proteins to construct functional structures.

 

[FearGod]

You can believe gods and evolution, no problem unless you think all life was created like magic by a god or many gods. The big problem for some is that if we have evolution we can't have a 6000 year old universe.

6000 years old universe doesn't make any sense, i agree

 

[Monk Of Reason]

What do you think about this article ?

Life's Raw Materials May Have Come From The Stars, Scientists Confirm -- ScienceDaily

It isn't surprising. As I said all heavy atoms were formed in the belly of stars that then go supernova and spew its contents into the solar system.