Origin of life

[LuisDantas]

It isn't my concern here to discuss religions and their beliefs.

Except to the extent that you insist that existence itself and life must have been created by divine will, you mean?

 

[LuisDantas]

Aha, a complex math.

Nothingness + nothingness =

Just because you can't understand or accept something it does not follow that it is not true, you know.

Arrogance ill becomes you.

 

[LuisDantas]

Isn't this whole argument just the "God of the gaps" fallacy? "We don't know how it can happen naturally, therefore God did it"?

Pretty much. Of the "only overly proud or dishonest atheists would attempt to say otherwise" sub-variety, it seems.

A thousand years ago, the exact same argument could be used to "prove" that lightning wasn't the result of natural processes in the atmosphere but was instead a direct supernatural event caused by God. If you don't know how something happened, then you simply don't know. You can't use that ignorance to support an untestable assertion.

Which does not stop people from trying, apparently.

 

[FearGod]

Isn't this whole argument just the "God of the gaps" fallacy? "We don't know how it can happen naturally, therefore God did it"? A thousand years ago, the exact same argument could be used to "prove" that lightning wasn't the result of natural processes in the atmosphere but was instead a direct supernatural event caused by God. If you don't know how something happened, then you simply don't know. You can't use that ignorance to support an untestable assertion.

Giving terms for fallacies won't solve the Dilemma.

I understand from your posting that one day we'll find out that God didn't it ? how sure are you that we'll prove that God doesn't exist, is it that how you feel about it, common sense?

 

[FearGod]

What, you think evolution was created to attempt to refute the existence of God?!?

That is nearly the exact opposite of the truth, you know.

Did i say so ?
I said atheists do and not the evolutionists, scientists don't discuss religion, it isn't their concern.

 

[FearGod]

Not a loop. Just a statement that a planet's matter came originally from a star.

There is no definitive answer for the origin of matter. But there is not much of a need for any, either.

And in any case, saying that God created it is not much of an explanation anyway. It is rather a statement of faith, of purpose. But not an explanation.

God may or may not have created matter, but that is no reason to fail to learn chemistry or physics.

Of course we should learn, as by learning we can realize how wonderful this world is and how dumb the DNA is(your saying).

 

[Ultimatum]

How can you say Time had an origin? Origins are created for convenience, they're purely conceptual, they don't exist in an Absolute sense.
IMO As long as there's mind there will be Time.

Ramana Maharshi says " What is time? It posits a state, one's recognition of it, and also the changes which affect it. The interval between two states is called time. A state cannot come into being unless the mind calls it into existence. The mind must be held by the Self. If the mind is not made use of there is no concept of time. Time and space are in the mind but one's true state lies beyond the mind. The question of time does not arise at all to the one established in one's true nature."

This is going to start to get extremely deep and philosophical. Keeping this in mind, I never said the time had an origin--no one can know whether or not it had one.
All I said was that time is not an eternal constant. Nice straw man, though.

 

[LuisDantas]

Did i say so ?
I said atheists do and not the evolutionists, scientists don't discuss religion, it isn't their concern.

You are mistaken. There is no controversy between evolutionists and atheists when it comes to science, particularly evolution.

"Intelligent Design" isn't science, and it certainly isn't evolution either. Religion is very much its concern.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of course we should learn, as by learning we can realize how wonderful this world is and how dumb the DNA is(your saying).

True that. DNA is simply not at all intelligent, although it is wonderful in its own way.

 

[FearGod]

Just because you can't understand or accept something it does not follow that it is not true, you know.

Arrogance ill becomes you.

To accept what ? do you have answers now for how things have started out of nothingness, tell me then what did you understand that you think of it to be true than just throwing away stupid comments if i may say.

 

[LuisDantas]

To accept what ?

That we don't always have ready-made answers, or answers that are actually within our own personal capability for understanding , and that neither do you.

do you have answers now for how things have started out of nothingness, tell me then what did you understand that you think of it to be true than just throwing away stupid comments if i may say.

Why this obsession with "starting out of nothingness"? How do you even know that there was ever a nothingness? There is no way of knowing that, far as I can tell.

 

[FearGod]

You are mistaken. There is no controversy between evolutionists and atheists when it comes to science, particularly evolution.

"Intelligent Design" isn't science, and it certainly isn't evolution either. Religion is very much its concern.

And some believe it's designed regardless of their beliefs, so what ?
Many atheists don't want to believe that God may even exist and that has nothing to do with evidences but that's their choices, i guess.

 

[Valjean]

Nothingness + nothingness =

Matter can pop into and out of existence - from nothing.
Things can be in two places at once.
Cats can be alive and dead at the same time.
Time can slow or speed up, and is different in different places.
Mass expands in the direction of motion.
Mass and energy are equivalent.
Things can move from one place to another without traversing any intervening space.
Things can influence or change other things instantly, even if they're thousands of light-years apart.
You can know (pretty much) the position of something, and you can know it's momentum, but you can't know both.
Light can be a wave, or it can be a particle. The observer decides (as with the cat)

Reality is completely different from anything commonsense and everyday experience tells you.

 

[LuisDantas]

And some believe it's designed regardless of their beliefs, so what ?

That phrase makes no grammatical sense. Or any other kind of sense.

Many atheists don't want to believe that God may even exist and that has nothing to do with evidences but that's their choices, i guess.

Neither does this. I have little idea of what you mean.

 

[FearGod]

That we don't always have ready-made answers, or answers that are actually within our own personal capability for understanding , and that neither do you.

Why to debate then ?

Why this obsession with "starting out of nothingness"? How do you even know that there was ever a nothingness? There is no way of knowing that, far as I can tell.

Oh, really
What was before the singularity and where did it come from ?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why to debate then ?

To learn about the perspectives of others, and to learn new information when it is available.

I will grant that it does not quite work all that well in most of your threads. But I think you should accept some responsibility for that.

Oh, really
What was before the singularity and where did it come from ?

I don't know. Maybe no one does. It matters little to me, truth be told. It is just not an important question to answer.

 

[FearGod]

That phrase makes no grammatical sense. Or any other kind of sense.


Neither does this. I have little idea of what you mean.

I mean not only believers believe that the universe is a product of a plan and design, so it has nothing to do with religion but with logic.
You don't want to see God in it, and some others see God in it.

 

[dust1n]

Where did life come from ?

During the big bang no life can exist, so what made the first cell of life to exist without being born.

Why the DNA is complex and is adjustable (mutations), how you explain those things to happen without any intelligence being involved ?

This is basically what people are studying.

No one can explain every facet of the arrival of life. It's just that saying "intelligence" is behind it doesn't serve any scientific function. The proper way to find it how it happens is by studying natural observable phenomenon.

Just because people don't believe in a deity doesn't make them knowledgeable about every aspect of everything that has ever occurred in nature.

 

[LuisDantas]

I mean not only believers believe that the universe is a product of a plan and design, so it has nothing to do with religion but with logic.

Sorry, but I must say that you are simply wrong.

You don't want to see God in it, and some others see God in it.

Now, this much is true, but incomplete and IMO misleading.

 

[FearGod]

To learn about the perspectives of others, and to learn new information when it is available.

I will grant that it does not quite work all that well in most of your threads. But I think you should accept some responsibility for that.

Which information ?
Tell me which information that i had refused to accept and to discuss.

I don't know. Maybe no one does. It matters little to me, truth be told. It is just not an important question to answer.

Yes i know, that's your choice and have no problem with it.