Our values are superior to yours so...

[Assad91]

The problem is though, that it can be difficult for others to understand what the "true" Sharia Law is, especially since it's based off interpretations of religion, which in itself is based off human interpretation.

No, it is based off of Quran and hadith. The problem comes in when some want to add to it. For an example, recently a sheikh called for a stoning of a women who showed herself topless. But stoning would not be the proper punishment under sharia.

With some research, you an learn. It is better then just talking out of ignorance.

There tends to be a lot of "No true Scotsman" going on in debates like this: "he committed this crime so therefor he is no a real Muslim" or "That place isn't a real Muslim country because there's no Khalifate" etc. Makes it difficult for others to understand.

One can only be declared a nonmuslim is the person themselves claim it, or they coit an act of kufr and have been notified of it and still go on it the act.

There is no 100% Islamic country as there was never a 100% Christian country.

 

[Alceste]

That is due to choice. I choose to believe in that and it doesn't matter on the skin colour. White superiority means 'I am' and 'you aren't'. There is no choice in that.

I can not choose to believe in Islam or any other patriarchal monotheistic religion. It is simply impossible, because of the way my brain is wired. If you believe in a creator God, then you must accept that this is the way that God wired my brain.

It strikes me as extremely hypocritical to accuse white people in general of bigotry if you believe all non-Muslims deserve to be eternally tortured while you enjoy eternal bliss.

 

[Koldo]

Hmm.. torture, rape, insect, genocides, assassinations, invasions want me to continue?

...

Like i said it sickens me that you belief your values are superior when your ''West'' has some of the highest criminal, rape, insect and other disturbing rates in the world.

I am rather unlikely to take note of misspellings, as i make many mistakes as well. And you probably knows this from my posts in this forum so far. But this one sticks out, because it sounds very very odd to say 'insect' rather than 'incest'.

Poor insects. What have they done to you?

 

[Aquitaine]

No, it is based off of Quran and hadith. The problem comes in when some want to add to it. For an example, recently a sheikh called for a stoning of a women who showed herself topless. But stoning would not be the proper punishment under sharia.

With some research, you an learn. It is better then just talking out of ignorance.



One can only be declared a nonmuslim is the person themselves claim it, or they coit an act of kufr and have been notified of it and still go on it the act.

There is no 100% Islamic country as there was never a 100% Christian country.

This is where we'll have to disagree. Any religious law is based off the texts of the religion itself - which is entirely interpreted via the subjectivity of the people doing the interpreting. This explains why there are so many different factions of the same religion, bickering and arguing over the "true" version of it. Ultimately this leads to a lot of outsiders simply being confused over the bickering believers, and thus perhaps explains why in this case we have so much confusion between "Western" values versus "Muslim" values.

 

[jonman122]

Hello. ^_^

I consider that so-called "war" to be a far worse terrorist attack than 9/11. So, in that sense, the American military is guilty of the same crimes as Al-Qaeda.

I do agree that the entire reason for going over their is ridiculous and I'm glad that my nation did not agree to wage war in Iraq and is instead sacrificing our soldiers so that we can build schools in Afghanistan.

Now I won't say that everything Canada has done has been entirely for education and stuff, as the JTF2 (Canadian Special Forces) is specifically in the middle east to hunt and assassinate terrorist leaders. The same terrorists that bomb buildings full of children.. So I'm not in any kind of disagreement with what they're doing.

 

[Riverwolf]

i don't think that he'll be brave enough to agree with you.

i think the problem that we only see from one eye,and we close the other one.

to say it in other words,some will see the Al-Qaeda to be right but they closed their eyes to see the innocents whom died and the families and their pains that caused from such awful terrorist attack the same thing for the war on Iraq,some will see it to be right and they closed their eyes to see it from the other side for the innocents and the pains among the Iraqi families.

The best who can open his 2 eyes and to see the truth and only the truth and not just to see one side and to erase the other from his mind.

I've read the parts of the Qur'an that forbid the killing of non-combatants, children, women, elders, disabled people, etc... which were the only victims of 9/11.

I tend to focus what political views I have to my subculture alone, and only pipe up with other matters if I feel I'm knowledgeable to say something that might be of worth.

 

[Riverwolf]

I know, you're right. I am a white person. I just don't like it how some/most whites think they are superior due to skin colour.

A friend of mine grew up believing that his life was less valuable than that of a white man, all because of white mans 'superiority'.

That viewpoint is dying, thank our Gods. We're not even white, for cryin' out loud! People who are white are dead.

 

[Riverwolf]

This thread gets more ridiculous by the post.

So innocents were evacuated before Baghdad was bombed, so the only victims were all fighters?

 

[Riverwolf]

I do agree that the entire reason for going over their is ridiculous and I'm glad that my nation did not agree to wage war in Iraq and is instead sacrificing our soldiers so that we can build schools in Afghanistan.

Now I won't say that everything Canada has done has been entirely for education and stuff, as the JTF2 (Canadian Special Forces) is specifically in the middle east to hunt and assassinate terrorist leaders. The same terrorists that bomb buildings full of children.. So I'm not in any kind of disagreement with what they're doing.

And while I'd prefer they stand trial because I believe every human being has a right to due process, that's FAR better than what our military did.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think every dominant culture has someone to apologize to right now.

The only ones who don't, AFAIK, are the Vikings who settled in Iceland.

Nah, they did unpleasant stuff too.

 

[Aquitaine]

I do agree that the entire reason for going over their is ridiculous and I'm glad that my nation did not agree to wage war in Iraq and is instead sacrificing our soldiers so that we can build schools in Afghanistan.

Even if the primary reason for Canada's participation in Afghanistan was to "build schools" for the locals, I still don't think it would be worth the lives of the Canadians being sacrificed.

 

[Riverwolf]

Nah, they did unpleasant stuff too.

But not to natives, since there weren't any.

 

[Secret Chief]

But not to natives, since there weren't any.

OK, though that doesn't mean they were angelic! I realise judging them with today's eyes is rather problematic (but surely murder and enslavement of monks is always a BAD thing...)

 

[Riverwolf]

OK, though that doesn't mean they were angelic! I realise judging them with today's eyes is rather problematic (but surely murder and enslavement of monks is always a BAD thing...)

I never said they were perfect, either. ^_^ I'm Irish-English on my mother's side, and even though I currently follow Norse religion, my ancestors were more likely than not the victims of Viking raids.

But AFAIK, they don't have an entire culture to apologize to.

 

[Me Myself]

Speaking from a Muslim perspective, in many threads about Islam, I find a problem.
I am certain that many non Muslims don't like some Islamic concepts and rulings. And they believe it's oppressive...I don't know barbaric...whatever. And I am not sure that non Muslims realize that many Muslims have a trouble with some Western concepts (I said Western because they are dominating the world currently) and see them very negatively and with disgust as some see Islam.

Now this is not my problem. My problem is not about having opposite views. But about the fact that because you think that your values are better than mine, we have to formulate the laws of our country according to yours. I can't help saying this is a typical imperialistic mindset. Almost all Muslim countries have suffered from Western imperialism and colonialism. And they have paid very expensive price for this and in their attempts to get their independence (of course they still do).

I am taking prostitution as an example and don't really mean to discuss it, you think that prostitution is somehow a human right for whatever reasons you have and they must be good reasons in your eyes. Anyone who wishes to be a prostitute must not be prevented from doing so. And it happened that your society agrees on this idea so the laws are in cope with this.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a right and I think it must be illegalized. The society I live in agrees on my view and it's manifested in the Law.

Of course the people of your country don't accept the idea of forcing my views on them. Readily we can hear the screams out loud when the word Shari'a is mentioned there.
Why don't you expect Muslims in their countries to do the same? I mean refusing to be ruled by non Muslim values that are inconsistent with theirs?

Human rights cross borders and are universal. Sorry when we are having our differences on some values, surely this means they are not universal. Sure there are some universal values, but we disagree on others. Not because there are some people who consider them to be universal, they must be. Not because you think that yours are more superior to ours, it must mean we should be ruled by yours (except of course believing that you have more powers than others and this gives you the right to subdue them).

Some Muslims may disagree with me. Certainly, there is a different non-Muslim perspective to all this.

Morality is subjective.

You now want to force us to believe we shouldnt force you to believe anything

If in United States men were castrated at birth if the mother lost a coin flip, or people were stabbed to death if they said they believe in Allah, or they trotured children for entertainment and they did so across the country.

Would you want to "impose" on them to be different? Or would you want to speak for the victims, who dont tend to be able to speak for themselves?

If you didnt spoke against such horrible imoralities, are ou not an accomplice? But if you did, wouldnt you be imposing your values upon them?

We all have moral laws that we thk should be for everyone.

I am honestly more to look down on those who dont care.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

But not to natives, since there weren't any.

I know some people from developing nations who take the term "native" as a pejorative. It leaves images of "primitive people". Most americans don't realize this.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I'm against imperialism and colonialism.
But I'm all for people rebelling against their culture and oppressor.
For example if gay Muslims want to get together and advocate for equal rights they should be able to with out being killed or physically attacked.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm against imperialism and colonialism.
But I'm all for people rebelling against their culture and oppressor.
For example if gay Muslims want to get together and advocate for equal rights they should be able to with out being killed or physically attacked.

Apparently there's no such thing as a Gay Muslim, they only exist in Kuffar societies and even then, they're not real Muslims.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Apparently there's no such thing as a Gay Muslim, they only exist in Kuffar societies and even then, they're not real Muslims.

Well then a gay person who was raised Muslim in a Muslim country and wants gay rights in their country.

 

[Assad91]

Yeah? Then they would be done by now.

Since that i not what they are after, they stay to help keep western interest inline and to take out anyone who disagrees ad may lead to such.